Respect for Referees??

All about our First Team

Respect for Referees??

Postby Old Git » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:26 pm

SSF's sending off, following on behind the Mascherano saga on Sunday and the Ashley Cole booking last week keeps this subject right to the fore. We don't really know yet why Stu got an early bath, but hopefully Colin will reveal all when hes seen the Ref's report.
What is clear from Stu's behaviour this year is he will persistently chunter off at the lino for decisions against him even when he is blatently offside. He usually tells them your a F****** T*** lino or some other term of endearment. Foul and abusive language should be a straight red anyway but this behaviour is so common the refs cannot do it or there would be noone left on the field!!!! What I can't understand is what he hopes to gain by it. If I was a lino and a player called me that I would'nt give him another decision for the rest of the game.
The lino obviously was the decision maker for his sending off today. Was this payback for the abuse he had received from Stu earlier in the match???
Looking at the national problem what do you guys think we should do about it. Should we go down the Rugby route of zero tolerance. You don't of many Hookers calling the ref a T**** in that sport. Some argue that swearing is part of the "passion" in our game. Do you think the Aussie World cup team showed any passion.
I have also heard from friends involved in kids football that it is starting to appear hear. I suppose they are bound to copy their heroes from the professional game.
It's an argument that will rumble on and on but I for one hope the FA take a tough stance on it. I,ve just heard on the radio that Mascherano says he does not know why he was sent off!!! What planet is he living on. If Brian Clough was back withus and managing Liverpool I think he may know why he was sent off. He also would'nt have to worry about getting his ears syringed for the next 10 years!!!
If Forest Green Rovers get in the football league then Pigs can fly !!!
User avatar
Old Git
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 885
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:03 pm

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Tommo » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:34 pm

Well said
User avatar
Tommo
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Horsley

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby gooseman » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:51 pm

Respect for ref's, respect for all. The problem is cultural. You can't expect players too change overnight. Swearng is common both on and off the field of play. Are the supporters any difference? I went to the Woking game and there was plenty of F ing and blinding coming from the Rockwool terrace.

I would suggest that the only option left for the authorities to to punish clubs with the docking of points. Fines mean nothing to players or clubs. Maybe FGR should take Barnets lead and only the captain questions the ref?
gooseman
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:59 pm

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Tim13 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:57 pm

Old Git wrote:What I can't understand is what he hopes to gain by it. If I was a lino and a player called me that I would'nt give him another decision for the rest of the game.


Judging by what I've seen at recent home matches, they do take offence and don't give him the decisions. Players do get reputations - Little Les had a reputation for falling over and for a while couldn't buy a decision against an opposing defender. I hadn't relaised how much abuse Fleets had been giving lino's - can't believe he'd do that within his Mum's earshot either!!

T
Tim13
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 462
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:53 pm

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby kevindhollywell » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:17 pm

I have to say a great topic to raise I'm a Chelsea fan as well as supporting FGR and watching Ashley Cole the other night I was amazed by his actions if I had been the ref I would have issued a red maybe not for the tackle but the way he reacted. This is a common thing now on tv and you can lip read most of the time what player's are saying to ref's. I thought foul and abusive language was a straight red so why is the rule not used more often. I have to say I get fed up of the moaning and cheating that has now come into the game and if Fleets did simulate being headbutted he desearves a red although not being there I will give him the benefit of the doubt until I hear differently
kevindhollywell
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:40 pm

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Joycie » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:21 pm

i've quite often spotted fleets having a go at linesman when decisions haven't gone his way. if i was a 35 goal striker i would be happy enough to wait for another chance during a game let along swearing at the lino for 30 seconds after a decision. in youth football if i was to say some of the things to an official that some players say then i might as well be walking off the pitch already. it could be the type of player fleets is but i hope it doesn't come with the arrogance of being one of the countries leading scorers. we don't know what happened yet but if what fleets did was worthy of a red card then he'll only learn by sitting off for the next three games. you would wish players would learn however - i wondered why mascherano kept on having a go at the ref on sunday especially following the events at white harte lane on wednesday night.
User avatar
Joycie
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1269
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:18 pm
Location: Slimbridge

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby chelsearover » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:30 pm

Just got back from Torquay, could not see the Fleetwood incident, but the first penalty was a dive, even some gulls supporters told me it was not a foul, but I must say the abuse the referee received from some of our supporters was way over the top, don't get me wrong I am no prude, after 22 years in the army, I should know bad language. I know the referee's decisions were poor, and I did shout at him myself a few times, and also the lino, I did not resort to foul language and it did not detract from my passion for the club, can somebody explain why bad language has to part of the supporters creed, and please don't play the passion card, as I have passion for FGR and I don't resort to it.
User avatar
chelsearover
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 691
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:19 am

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Tommo » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:41 pm

Goseman made the point about his being a cultural shift. Bad language is getting badder (sorry) and its reflected on the football pitch, in the stands and in everyday life everywhere you go.

We have talked before about how FGR could be different from the norm in this respect - be the friendly club (with a hard core and backbone of steel - there is no need to be considered softies just because we don't use disgraceful language). I think we could yet create a groundswell along these lines but the players have to take a lead too. Up until recently I think we have shown tremendous discipline on the field. But Fleets has led the charge towards more lip recently and it has been more thank the natural arrogance of a striker refinding his form.

JH needs to get a grip on it as I'm sure he wil and then we supporters need to help him. Its an uphil fight because of the cultural shifts going on around us all but we can all make a difference and should start as son as possible.

There is a danger that all of this will seem prudish but we live in the real world where these pressures are evident every day and we can take a stand if we want to. We don't have to change much but what a difference it would make, it would attract a new and differnt crowd and, I think, it would simply be more fun.
User avatar
Tommo
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Horsley

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Turnking » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:03 pm

Totally agree Tommo and despite the dreadful ref and linesmen today, I'm frankly sick up to the back teeth with all the foul, abusive garbage spilled out by many supporters of this and other clubs. Yes its in the 'culture', but whats cultural about bad language?
The exodus to the seats at the New Lawn is for one good reason.
The next exodus will be away from the round ball game for good, for some of us.
Might go and watch my 10 year old play netball. Far more relaxing..
Turnking
Youth
Youth
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:53 pm

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Pitchfork » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:48 pm

I hope this week has been a turning point in the downward spiral of abuse of referees. The Ashely Cole and Mascherano incidents have certainly stimulated a considerable debate and most opinions have been for a crachdown against dissent. Even Fergy has argued for more respect for officials. Professional footballers, whether they are in the Premiership or Blue Square set a terrible example to youngsters and we should not be surprised when they give lip to referees in youth matches, their teachers and parents.

We must wait to hear the Fleetwood Facts before commenting on this red card, but if his dissent was similar to that in recent matches he was due for his come uppance! JH and Colin Gardner both take tough stances on ill discipline - it will be interesting to hear their comments on today.
User avatar
Pitchfork
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 8248
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:00 pm

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Green Lantern » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:32 pm

Well said ChelseaRover - why do people who eff & blind at football matches always quote " I'm passionate about the game " in their defence. I'm equally passionate about the game, & lots of other things too , but I don't resort to using foul language at the top of my voice to display my passion. It's bad enough hearing it from the players when a decision goes against them , but hearing a constant stream of obcenities from the terraces does nothing but lesson my enjoyment of the match. Do these people use the same language at home with their families & their children within earshot ? I imagine not. As for the players , I think it's high time football adopted the practise of both rugby codes in only allowing the team captain to speak to the referee - any other player ranting & raving at the ref. should be booked. I also like the idea of a point deducted from a team for every red card. That would make players clean up their act I've no doubt. As someone mentioned in an earlier post , suspensions and particularly fines , mean nothing to players , especially those earning massive amounts of ££££ per week - but if his whole team was punished by the deduction of a point or two , I'm sure the amount of red cards shown would decrease , in all levels of football.
User avatar
Green Lantern
Youth
Youth
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:12 am

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Sesh » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:43 pm

Not sure that the deduction of points for a red card would be good....imagine all the controvesy that it would cause?!it's bad enough as it stands at the moment, that the inconsistency in refereeing standards costs you the odd point or 3 in games. Also, would this system not get fans/players/managers even more irrate and lead to even more foul and abusive language?

I do agree that the current system of fines and suspensions does need looking at - there needs to be some form of punishment which is actually meaningful and actually does "punish" the players. Its apparent to everyone that the current system is not good enough and does not act as a sufficient deterent. Maybe if the players were to clean up there act then the fans will follow?or maybe i'm just living in a fantasy world.....

If the game of rugby can manage it then why not football?
Sesh
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby SkunkMan » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:40 pm

Will wait to hear an 'official' view on the Fleetwood sending off, seems to be numerous interpretations of what he did, slap someone, pretend he'd been head-butted, etc. Presumably the ref's report should confirm this, but by the sound of it the linesman gave it and the ref didn't even see it?!

Unfortunately this back-chatting the officials is now so prevalent that stamping it out is going to be a huge challenge. I was particularly dissapointed to hear Andy Gray on Sky Sports effectively condoning Mascherano's behaviour and implying the referee had over-reacted; the players set a bad enough example on the field, now we have ex-players trying to claim that "its a passionate and emotional game" and that such things are acceptable...? RUBBISH. Big up to Steve Bennett for having the guts to do the right thing. You can clearly see what Mascherano said to him and it wasn't the first time he had given him a mouthful. If only Mike Riley had had the balls to send Cashley Hole off as he should have done.

Prem footballers are like petulant children these days and the same sort of behaviour must not be allowed to permeate the BSP to such a level. As others have pointed out, Rugby is a considerably more physical game but does not have the same problems because players know they will be punished. What real deterrent is there to the like of Cashley and Mascherano...?
"Winning doesn't really matter, as long as you win." Vinny Jones
User avatar
SkunkMan
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1788
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:41 pm
Location: South Glawstershire (b. Stroud)

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Havelock » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:49 pm

Personally I thought the ref lost control of the game in thye first few minutes yesterday. Did not see the SSF incident clearly, but alas, as the Torquay Fans did not shout for it?

Also if I recall the ball was punted to the right. If SSF was offside, then he was not interferring with play. If he said something to the official, it was his own stupid fault.

Alas, a typical bank Holiday game, ruined, not by the latter of the players abusing officials, but in the first instance the officials not taking control of the game, a quiet word here does not go amiss.
User avatar
Havelock
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 645
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:52 pm
Location: Been there

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Bulldog Stripes » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:04 pm

If there has to be zero tollerance then so be it. If referees are told to flash cards for anything regarded as dissent, then slowly but surely players, managers etc will soon learn even if it has to be the hard way ( 8 a side).

Trouble is its the lack of consistency. Yeah Steve Bennett gave a red card for the offence. Next week another referee will probably either show a yellow or just ignore it
User avatar
Bulldog Stripes
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:42 pm

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Toffeeman » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:06 pm

Here here Havelock , the referee in yesterdays game gave an awful lot power to his liners to give free kicks etc. Some refs don't even want liners to make decisions about throwins. The liner took his opportunity of power and wanted to be the star of the show in front of a decent size home crowd, could he have been influenced. Weak Officials spoiled the game yesterday, but swings and roundabouts, lets hope we get some luck.
Toffeeman
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: Preston, Lancashire

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:09 pm

Dougal wrote:
gooseman wrote:...I went to the Woking game and there was plenty of F ing and blinding coming from the Rockwool terrace.

There always is (and it's the same people every time too). For the most part the Rockwool army are a good bunch and bring great atmosphere to the game. Unfortunately there are a couple that have trouble stringing a sentence together with out adding a F***ing and more recently I have heard the C word too. They must know that allot of youngsters look up to them, and laugh at all the swearing. Need to set a better example really.


Really worrying. The conduct of a minority in the Rockwool appears to be turning some of our members away from the ground. Reminders of the long running thread on the old site ... instigated by CG by an appeal to temper the prevalent foul language from the Rockwool. As a concessionary in the main stand I can concur that the language is usually a personal embarrassment to me. No trouble in defining the words used from the Rockwool listening from here.

PS Garry Lineker was a role model player in his days ... never receiving a card in his career. Emulate him someone!
Last edited by Fartvs Antiqvvs on Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quo tendimus?

Nos venit!
User avatar
Fartvs Antiqvvs
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Toffeeman » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:14 pm

I bet Linaker would get a card these days, Tom Finney wouldn't though.
Toffeeman
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: Preston, Lancashire

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby colin gardner » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:30 pm

I personally, did not see the incident where Stuart Fleetwood was sent off, nor have I seen the video, so therefore, am unable to throw any light on the reasons for the dismissal.
Regarding bad language on the field of play by players, I can only say that normally officials do not take notice of it unless it is directed at them personally and then I can only say, players get what they deserve. If players choose to swear, maybe it's because they are having a bad day and need to blame someone else.
It's interesting to note that our disciplinary record has gone downhill in line with our performance.
I do regret the stupid cautions picked up throughout the season by arguing, kicking the ball away, delaying tactics and taking one's shirt off after scoring a goal. (even though everybody knows it's a definite booking) Tackles, I can tolerate, yes, they can be mistimed, or condition of pitches sometimes doesn't help.

The number of complaints regarding abusive language at Forest Green continues to grow but unfortunately even the decrease in attendance will never get through to the brain of the perpetrators who will blame the loss of support on anything which is not to do with them. Our attendances are on the decline and unless we can reverse the trend and increase our regular level of support then we will never achieve the level we hope for, and that is The Football League.

Just a final point, how many of these so called supporters do you see at fund raising events for the club? NONE
User avatar
colin gardner
Youth
Youth
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:26 am

Re: Respect for Referees??

Postby Tommo » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:54 pm

Spoken from the heart Colin.

I'm glad we are having this debate again. I know that we have had it before but people need reminding that we don't need to be sheep following the cultural norm. We can be different and profit by being so. We can be passionate and authentic without reverting to the mass sceaming of swear words - certainly not those of the worst type. We can create an atmosphere of support and excitement without taunting the opposition and with wit rather than with crudeness.

We need to look at all ways of generating bigger crowds. The core support has grown but I suspect that it is the more peripheral waverers who came when times are good that are not coming now that we are not sweeping all before us in attack and the support and the players (some anyway) are getting moody and rude. There is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that if we truly became a 'family club' we would attract a new audiebnce and that audience would become more permanent.

Lets self police a bit more and do our bit. There is always a danger that we will be shouted down but unless we stand up to negative coment about players from the stands or crude jibes with swear words from the Rockwool, we will not progress and just become another club just like the rest. To beat the competition we ned to have a differentiated product. Lets help create that.

The players can too.
User avatar
Tommo
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Horsley

Next

Return to FGR First Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Glenn, Greeners, Mothy, NewForestRover, onlineracingclub, Rich E, Tddun and 1 guest

About FGR

We’re a club that looks to the future, but our identity is forged from a rich 128-year history. Founded in 1889, we’re one of the oldest football clubs in the world.

In 2017, we were promoted to the Football League for the first time in our history – which means we can spread our sustainability message to an even bigger audience. FIFA recently described us as the greenest football club in the world. That’s quite an accolade, and it shows how we’ve been able to bring together football and environmental consciousness at the highest levels of the game.