Mark Cooper

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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Tomiswalking » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:43 pm

Podgers wrote:I haven’t been on here in years, but got a text today asking had I seen the comments about Trev’s flag so thought I’d just take a little look.

Boy am I glad I’m not a regular visitor to these pages, but I feel the need to post on a couple of things.

TH was someone I looked up to and admired, while we didn’t always agree around the board table, we both understood where we were coming from. That aside, to suggest fans who have purchased a flag (many months ago and raising money for charity in the protest) in his memory because of what he did for the club and the impact he had on so many fans lives is what is pathetic, insensitive and childish.

Having known you during my time at the club, I’m disappointed to see you turning this into a political agenda Pete. That’s a low blow to those who contributed who genuinely loved the big man.

Although I am still even more disappointed as far as I know TH is yet to be recognised at The New Lawn. Where is the plaque, or even statue the man so deserves. Perhaps we’re waiting until the new stadium is built before we honour him as he deserves?

While I’m here too, Chris Grump, let’s not spread incorrect information. When Dale came into the club he did not do so buying shares from Trevor so to state Trevor sold the club to Dale is incorrect.

Also, remember over the years Trevor invested in excess of £2m of his personal wealth to the club as donations and not in return for shares. If he had requested shares to the value of all he had put in the club might not be in the position it is today.

Pretty sure just one person said this. Also the forum has been very useful for me to find out information about the club.

I agree TH should be recognised at the club. At the new ground too.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:59 pm

Plus Colin Gardner MBE!
Quo tendimus?

Nos venit!
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Tomiswalking » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:03 pm

Fartvs Antiqvvs wrote:Plus Colin Gardner MBE!

Totally!!
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Tommo » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:41 pm

I think any supporter who has been around for a while recognise the big contributions of Trevor and, to a lesser but invaluable extent, Colin.

Lauding them doesn’t need to diminish Dales massive more recent input. If the south stand intend to do that by showing the Trevor banner than shame on them. But I think we should take it at face value and enjoy the celebration of Trevor’s impact on the Club.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby FGR Casual 2 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:59 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
Football Poets wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:I was particularly disappointed when, at a recent home game, a large banner of Trevor Horsley was displayed. It gave me great pleasure to be reminded of him and all he did for FGR. However someone pointed out that they actually didn't give a toss about TH, and were only using his image to "get at" the current management,. I wonder what his family feel about his image being used in this way. Truly pathetic, childish and insensitive behaviour.


Silver Surfer.I don't know if you an East Stand/North Stand or South Stand fan?
I presume East. but I also feel very strongly that you should apologise for pointing out something that 'someone (?) apparently/allegedy pointed out to you. Hhow dare you make such an outrageous, un-founded claim that 'they' 'don't give a toss about Trevor Horsley' .A wonderful man, who actually went out of his way to get to know the fans including the said South Stand fans and back at the old ground..

I also agree Admin shoud have removed Silver Surfer's post.


I must sit on the fence with this one.
I was also perplexed when the flag was rolled down.
There was no pre-publicity that it would be done.
And I'm still not sure about the motive.
And because of that, it has led to all sorts of conjecture by a few posters.
If there was a good reason and everybody knew it would happen I'm sure those in the East & North Stands would be in support.


It was a flag organised by fans for a chairman we all knew personally for years and were fond of. Money was made for charity in the process. Why would their need to be pre-publicity? Old turncoat moron.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby FGR Casual 2 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:02 pm

Tommo wrote:I think any supporter who has been around for a while recognise the big contributions of Trevor and, to a lesser but invaluable extent, Colin.

Lauding them doesn’t need to diminish Dales massive more recent input. If the south stand intend to do that by showing the Trevor banner than shame on them. But I think we should take it at face value and enjoy the celebration of Trevor’s impact on the Club.


Why are you still trying to push this whole "South Stand has an agenda" because of Trev's flag? We've spelled it out to all of you, plain and simple!
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Silver Surfer » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:10 pm

Football Poets wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:I was particularly disappointed when, at a recent home game, a large banner of Trevor Horsley was displayed. It gave me great pleasure to be reminded of him and all he did for FGR. However someone pointed out that they actually didn't give a toss about TH, and were only using his image to "get at" the current management,. I wonder what his family feel about his image being used in this way. Truly pathetic, childish and insensitive behaviour.


Silver Surfer.I don't know if you an East Stand/North Stand or South Stand fan?
I presume East. but I also feel very strongly that you should apologise for pointing out something that 'someone (?) apparently/allegedy pointed out to you. Hhow dare you make such an outrageous, un-founded claim that 'they' 'don't give a toss about Trevor Horsley' .A wonderful man, who actually went out of his way to get to know the fans including the said South Stand fans and back at the old ground..

I also agree Admin shoud have removed Silver Surfer's post.

This is aside from the emotive and bigger issue of abusive songs/chanting which is being vociferously debated here. An issue that I -and many here- understand and which exists in a minory at most clubs .I appreciste that it is upsetting both other fans and Mark Cooper and childfren and this is a huge topic on its own.

Above all, it's particularly saddening that all this is coming to a head but it needs to. I have advocated dialogue and have asked Helen and otherrs etc for ages in the past that dialogue between ther club and said fans would really help. No one ever sets foot or visits the South Stand. It's like -young or old-we are all tarnished as rebels .

The new unique drum stand was a big breakthrough, as were the younger South Stand fans coming to ther to the last Fans Forum. I feit at the end of the night that we had a tiny, timely breakthrough ..especially when Dale came over afterwards and spoke with them and us and agreed the stand..and said how pleased he was to meet them. There is much to do still . None of which is helped by winding up people .

Whaever you thing of the young singers, there were countless seasons when the only sound in the stadium were the South Stand Green Army. I remember our being outsung by 30 odd from Solihull. It's fine for others to say the atmosphere has improved in the East Stand but having sat t in there twice recerntly. when i i could 't stand and drum for a game and it was still pretty quiet I'm afraid. (and i know they are trying!)


Bottom line ....So much work to do.


Crispin

When a group of fans display the TH banner while chanting abuse about the current owner and the new ground , what conclusion can one draw? That is patently not a celebration of TH.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby FGR Casual 2 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:19 pm

Silver Surfer wrote:Crispin

When a group of fans display the TH banner while chanting abuse about the current owner and the new ground , what conclusion can one draw? That is patently not a celebration of TH.


Who and when? Or is this more slander and false allegations?
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby voodoobluesman » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:34 pm

I think that the TH flag was great and in the best of intentions. Good on them, and it's great that they collected money for charity too. The fact that people chant about the new stadium and DV isn't to my taste, but they are free to do that.

What is unreasonable though, is the abuse of the team and individual players. Anyone who does that (and some of the East stand are guilty of that too) is, in my opinion, not a true supporter. Whoever controls the South Stand twitter account has also told me that they'd hoped that Swindon beat us, again you would need to question whether they actually are FGR supporters.

There are also some who genuinely feel aggrieved by the way that the club has gone, and aren't some of the 7 clowns above. I actually sympathise with them and hope that they find something that does get them excited about football once again in the way that FGR has to me, whether that's with us (hopefully) or somewhere else.

We shouldn't confuse and mix all of these people together. Some of them are really good supporters, some are clowns. For most, the South Standers are a good bunch.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Football Poets » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:24 pm

Silver Surfer wrote:
Football Poets wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:
Crispin

When a group of fans display the TH banner while chanting abuse about the current owner and the new ground , what conclusion can one draw? That is patently not a celebration of TH.


Pete/Silver Surfer
Lets' be specific,correct and factual here . The fans were not "chanting abuse about the current owner and the new ground " UNDER the banner i the last home game. The flag, which I and many South Standers contributed to, was unfurled at the start only.

Lots if postive songs were sung, and drummed along to r but among them ... the Anti Dale and anti Eco-Park chants. To be fair quite a few in the South Stand objected and shouted their displeasure at those . I don't enjoy or agree with swearing or abuse, (or to give it the the widespread commentators nickname 'industrial language' ) especially when children are close at hand.....but until we wipe out racism , homophobia and sexism first, I have learned to live with it (rightly or wrongly) as a lesser evil... (sadly) while watching football all over the country for over 60 years.

So I still feel you you should apologise. But of course I know you won't. Very sad the split..the break up the animosity and whole thing really.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby 20yrs and counting » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:26 pm

I just hope those who hold a grudge against FGR lose interest and don’t bother coming anymore. I don’t go half as much nowadays due to a feeling of disconnect from days gone by. The club appears to only want corporate clients and only thinks of east standers in everything. South standers and North standers are made to feel like 2nd class citizens.

Why DV, Henry or others don’t visit the stands to join fans or canvas opinion etc seems ridiculous. The club has a massive image problem amongst its supporters. It is about time we were all on the same page in unity. So difficult with so many factions. Just wish TNL had more of the fun factor. Always a strange atmosphere when I attend. I understand we are likely to move but surely there are plenty of short term improvements that can be made. All this tension btw posters and I literally agree a bit with everyone’s posts. Shame these posts from the heart cannot be transferred into positivity.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Tomiswalking » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:32 pm

20yrs and counting wrote:I just hope those who hold a grudge against FGR lose interest and don’t bother coming anymore. I don’t go half as much nowadays due to a feeling of disconnect from days gone by. The club appears to only want corporate clients and only thinks of east standers in everything. South standers and North standers are made to feel like 2nd class citizens.

Why DV, Henry or others don’t visit the stands to join fans or canvas opinion etc seems ridiculous. The club has a massive image problem amongst its supporters. It is about time we were all on the same page in unity. So difficult with so many factions. Just wish TNL had more of the fun factor. Always a strange atmosphere when I attend. I understand we are likely to move but surely there are plenty of short term improvements that can be made. All this tension btw posters and I literally agree a bit with everyone’s posts. Shame these posts from the heart cannot be transferred into positivity.


Well said :)
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Tj1889 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:03 pm

FGR Casual 2 wrote:
Tj1889 wrote:Are we seeing a mirror of wider society? A small but very vocal group of anger driven right wing protesters? Ideals driven by a rose tinted view of the past?
I think the questions we are debating here are the same ones being debated all over the country. I believe the only remedy is for reasonable people to stand firm and make themselves heard.


It's similar, but not in the way that a centrist Liberal boomer such as yourself may think..

The club's been taken over by a multi millionaire businessman parading as a nice, soft social leftist - Neo Liberalism.
Slowly he has eaten away at the things that made the club what it once was (the badge, the colours, soon the stadium) and changed them for his own benefit - Corporatism
A section of the most vocal fans, who have been there for decades, feel pushed out because these corporate liberal views seem to be working against them to change what it was they once loved - Much like how working class people voted in favour of Brexit
Now we have an internet forum of middle class baby boomers discussing how they're all in the wrong for voicing their opinion, something which as paying football fans (or in this analogy, registered voters) they are well within their right to do - Again, very much like Brexit.


FGR Casual 2, thank you for your reply.

Firstly, be careful not to make assumptions. They tend make people look silly.

But secondly, I can understand and sympathise with some of your points. Some of the changes over the last few years have been difficult to come to terms with. Personally, I miss the old kit. However, everything in the world changes with time.
With this in mind though, I am genuinely interested in what your ideal version of the future of the club would be. If you could, what would you change? What would be the club's priorities?
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby The Old TomCat » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:46 pm

FGR Casual 2 wrote:
It was a flag organised by fans for a chairman we all knew personally for years and were fond of. Money was made for charity in the process. Why would their need to be pre-publicity? Old turncoat moron.

Please don't be rude; you've already lost the argument by being so offensive.
I asked a genuine question which you failed to answer.
Everybody in the ground has utmost respect for TH and everything he did for the club.
But why unfurl flag at that particular game. Was it a special date or game or something similar.
That is reason why I asked.
Whatever the reason it failed in it's purpose because it put you and others on the back foot and have had to defend decision.
It would have been far more respectful to all if it had been hung up rather than unfurled.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Eco-Exile » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:22 am

The Old TomCat wrote:
FGR Casual 2 wrote:
It was a flag organised by fans for a chairman we all knew personally for years and were fond of. Money was made for charity in the process. Why would their need to be pre-publicity? Old turncoat moron.

Please don't be rude; you've already lost the argument by being so offensive.
I asked a genuine question which you failed to answer.
Everybody in the ground has utmost respect for TH and everything he did for the club.
But why unfurl flag at that particular game. Was it a special date or game or something similar.
That is reason why I asked.
Whatever the reason it failed in it's purpose because it put you and others on the back foot and have had to defend decision.
It would have been far more respectful to all if it had been hung up rather than unfurled.


Unfurling is the traditional policy of such memorial flags. From famous stories like the Kop unfurling Justice for 96 banners to local stories like Cheltenham’s young group of singers raising money to unfurl the Justin Edinburgh banner.

One or two of my family/friends in the Valleys knew the TH banner was being prepared and in fact donated money. They didn’t know or care when it was going to be unfurled but were looking out for the news coverage which was expected to be a nice story.

It is a real shame the banner is being criticised by the usual suspects on here. Yes I really dislike the abuse and swearing and anti-social behaviour and want fans who do that banned but that doesn’t mean I cannot appreciate and be proud of the banner.

Even more of a shame is the constant polarisation and taking up of entrenched and myopic views on both sides.

I wish to implore all fans to consider a bit of balance and more thoughtful positions. For example the following views are not contradictory:

Is passionate support good? Yes. Does that mean swearing and abuse is acceptable? No

Are different groups of fans entitled to have different views and opinions on the club and its strategic direction? Of course! Should these opinions be expressed aggressively, with abuse, protests or efforts to silence and dismiss other groups? Absolutely not.

Is there more of a focus on corporate guests and tourist fans than there used to be? Yes, essential to revenue growth. Does this change the club or make it a place where traditional fans are unwanted or can’t support the team? No, the South and North stand can still support and those stands are not full so have capacity for more of these type of supporters too.

Are boo-boys and abusive morons welcome at the club? No. Does that mean a whole stand should be demonised and a great effort to create a banner dismissed and turned into a negative? No

Are people entitled to dislike the manager and owner? Of course, football is a game of opinions and opinions are welcome if not expressed abusively or disruptively. Does that make them less of a fan or more of a fan? Not in the slightest - fans of all views are all fans.

I do not care if 500 fans in the South Stand are against Eco Park, that is their view and it is respected. However if any or all of those fans are disruptive or abusive then eject and ban.

We should police behaviour, not ideas. I don’t care if you are an East Stand fan who supports Eco Park: if you racially abuse a Scunthorpe player you are not welcome at our club. Similarly if you are South Stand fan against Eco Park, if you use anti-social and abusive language you should be ejected.

There are many ways of supporting the team, many ways of winding up the opponents, many ways of influencing the referee, many ways of showing what you like about the club and many ways of showing what you don’t like about the club. The only way any of the above is not acceptable is with discriminatory, abusive or swearing language or anti-social and disruptive behaviour.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Silver Surfer » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:00 am

Football Poets wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:
Football Poets wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:
Crispin

When a group of fans display the TH banner while chanting abuse about the current owner and the new ground , what conclusion can one draw? That is patently not a celebration of TH.


Pete/Silver Surfer
Lets' be specific,correct and factual here . The fans were not "chanting abuse about the current owner and the new ground " UNDER the banner i the last home game. The flag, which I and many South Standers contributed to, was unfurled at the start only.

Lots if postive songs were sung, and drummed along to r but among them ... the Anti Dale and anti Eco-Park chants. To be fair quite a few in the South Stand objected and shouted their displeasure at those . I don't enjoy or agree with swearing or abuse, (or to give it the the widespread commentators nickname 'industrial language' ) especially when children are close at hand.....but until we wipe out racism , homophobia and sexism first, I have learned to live with it (rightly or wrongly) as a lesser evil... (sadly) while watching football all over the country for over 60 years.

So I still feel you you should apologise. But of course I know you won't. Very sad the split..the break up the animosity and whole thing really.


Crispin

I really don't feel the need to apologise for criticising the appalling behaviour of a few. It is you who should apologise for condoning it. I suggest that rather than boring everyone else on here we meet in the Gym bar on Saturday to discuss this issue if you still feel you are in the right.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Tommo » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:01 pm

Good post Eco-E. Just a few overstep the mark. That is what happened at Mansfield.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Earl » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:22 pm

For some Vince is to blame for all the perceived grievances and for others Vince is an entirely blameless visionary football club owner.

Just arguing an entrenched position is a worthless and ultimately a pointless exercise.

Unless both sides are willing to listen and find a compromise, the rancorous divide will continue. Vince has no need for those fans and I suspect will lose no sleep over their eventual departure.

I understand the objections of some fans to the club’s direction and the owner’s well publicised political activism but why the idiotic swearing from the rebels? Make your opinions known but tone down the abuse. I doubt they will though.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Eco-Exile » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:37 pm

Earl wrote:For some Vince is to blame for all the perceived grievances and for others Vince is an entirely blameless visionary football club owner.

Just arguing an entrenched position is a worthless and ultimately a pointless exercise.

Unless both sides are willing to listen and find a compromise, the rancorous divide will continue. Vince has no need for those fans and I suspect will lose no sleep over their eventual departure.

I understand the objections of some fans to the club’s direction and the owner’s well publicised political activism but why the idiotic swearing from the rebels? Make your opinions known but tone down the abuse. I doubt they will though.


No need to listen and compromise per se. Fans are welcome at FGR whether they like Dale or dislike Dale. Just accept you have different views and you both support the same team. Fans who use abusive language are not welcome regardless of their views on Dale. It is abusive and anti-social behaviour which is unwelcome, not any particular view point.
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Re: Mark Cooper

Postby Football Poets » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:25 pm

Silver Surfer wrote:
Crispin

I really don't feel the need to apologise for criticising the appalling behaviour of a few. It is you who should apologise for condoning it. I suggest that rather than boring everyone else on here we meet in the Gym bar on Saturday to discuss this issue if you still feel you are in the right.


Answer : Re ' It is you who should apologise for condoning it. '
I'm not condoning it .I f you read back I said "I don't enjoy or agree with swearing or abuse, (or to give it the the widespread commentators nickname 'industrial language' ) especially when children are close at hand.....but until we wipe out racism , homophobia and sexism first, I have learned to live with it (rightly or wrongly) as a lesser evil... (sadly) while watching football all over the country for over 60 years."

Re: "I suggest that rather than boring everyone else on here we meet in the Gym bar on Saturday to discuss this issue if you still feel you are in the right."

Answer :It's not about who is in the right..and it is boring agreed..but as a South Stand s/t holder I am not allowed in the Gym Bar anyway til after the game when i usually head back re traffic etc;..so I can't meet you.
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