Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby Timb » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:18 am

We lost then.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby garyjj » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:25 am

Timb wrote:We lost then.


2 wins in 17 is terrible.... all the teams with our form have got rid.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby FGR-Ledge » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:54 am

Timb wrote:We lost then.


Yes we did, yet again!!

Yet, why do I have this horrible feeling Cooper is going nowhere!
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby FGR-Ledge » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:55 am

garyjj wrote:
Timb wrote:We lost then.


2 wins in 17 is terrible.... all the teams with our form have got rid.


Teams with much better form. Have got rid.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby Too occasional fan » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:03 am

I see in the interview that the first goal was down to an individual mistake, then heads went down, etc.

I don’t think a manager should be highlighting individual mistakes in the media. Does nothing for the player that made the error. Berating a player should be done in private. As for the heads going down, it is preparation and leadership that gets a team out of such a situation.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby Kentstripe » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:22 am

Pretty much all managers highlight collective mistakes, talk about how soft the goals conceded were etc. That's not normally a problem as long as you don't publicly name names, which on this occasion MC doesn't. I haven't agreed when he has in the past though, don't think it helps.

All 3 goals were poor, the second especially and it's a common theme. Until the basic errors are cut out we won't win games. Make teams work hard to score.

The only positive yesterday was that the team is still showing spirit, and somehow nearly snatched a point from being 3-0 down. If we could play the way we finished last night from the off on Saturday, then we've got a chance.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby montyc » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:28 am

Sad to say but the Taxi for MC is long overdue. I cannot see how we are going to change this terrible run we are on. I thank MC for getting League Two footy at TNL but it's time for a change at the helm.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby SNJ Ash » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:33 am

Forest Green drummer falls silent but defiant boss Mark Cooper insists he can get a tune out of his faltering side


https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/ ... ring-side/
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby michael » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:43 am

Its down to the recruitment -average at best in summer (hence my prediction in summer of 19th ).

that given-i really thought that january recruitment would be good, and fgr could maintain a play off challenge after all.

January recruitment was absolutely terrible -loan players not good enough for other clubs-what was the point ?
blatantly obvious that it 'worsened' the team'(possibly stokes was a good move ) and with so many non long term loan players-surely team spirit is diluted as well.
very poor decision making in january and DV must take a share of responsibility for allowing it to happen that way

what can one realistically expect from a player who was 4 levels lower 8 months ago-but is now expected to be a top goalscorer week in week out in the EFL-what sort of deluded managment/recruitment thinking is that ?

why not just one or two players who can actually improve the team ?
how many no 10's are there now ?-about 8 who all play and look -a -like ?

questions must be asked of the director of football -the players recruited in last 9 months do not have the basic talent to be 'improved' and sold for profit -adams and dokes probably excepted

young non physical flakey players being found out in tougher winter conditions -its not the recipe for winning games of football in EFL2 ,but neither are they likely to be 'developed' for sell on profit
Last edited by michael on Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby Timb » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:57 am

So, we go again on Saturday.

I thought Josh March played and slotted in well last night and will come good in the forthcoming months.

Elliott needs some space or some yards to work with, his crossing is excellent when he has a second to set before crossing. But play around with the ball and then touch it out to him when he's been picked up and he's got nothing to work with.

His link up with chris stokes for the goal and the whole of that pretty crisp move is what we need to build on. Just before that move came there was an example of the opposite, slower build up, in fact elliott was ignored and the move came to nothing.

There were definitely some positives last night, but going two down in such a slack way was not one of them. Who is doing the defensive coaching ? Cut out the mistakes at the back, they're crucifying us...
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby Timb » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:12 am

I don't think that you can underestimate the effect that Scott Lindsay's untimely departure has had since the end of September.

He was at MC's side all the way from his appointment I think, in 2016.

It will take a lot of galvanising to turn things around but I have a sneaking suspicion we will.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby 20yrs and counting » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:14 am

Against my better instinct I decided to attend last night. Intrigued to see how far we had fallen. This is not a blip this is free fall. What saddens me most is the players are really trying. Players so low in confidence and belief, heads down, unable to look supporters in the eye. Likewise fans unable to offer vociferous support. This is before kick off. Everyone new the inevitable. For those who didn’t attend, the score line flattered us. Bar the first ten and last 10 we were well beaten. What’s gone wrong? Far as we can tell MC signed all the players he wanted.

Everything about the club screams non league at the moment. The loss in fan base, the naivety of tactics. Logan is no better than what we have. Stokes cruelly exposed last night. Frear half the player he was. Kitching best passer in team but always mistake in him. Bernard and Adams anonymous. Stevens and March worked tirelessly with nothing to work with. Even when we did break the lines players would often go down easily rather than play an easier option of a killer pass. This must be coached to the players because they all do it.

There are some positives. Rawson best defender. Winch best leader in the team by a mile. Last 20 he was really driving team forward. Yet previous 70 only backward and sideways. Why. If he did it for 90 we would improve immensely. Winch needs to boss midfield and must have support to do this. Although his work rate isn’t great, Collins does have the undefinable X factor. Maybe Williams can provide a catalyst for a creative late season bloom.

Fans can’t even be bothered to call for MC to go now. We now DV is his own man. Can we mathematically still go down?
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby paulK » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:54 am

Difficult to know how to gauge this one with press reports being somewhat positive, but another loss with the view on the forum that it's time for Cooper out accompanied by dollies being ejected from prams.

Have to admit it seemed another alien-type line-up and yet another attempt at 4-4-2 - or was it meant to be 4-3-3? Anyway, looking at the stats, for whatever they are worth, it seems goal attempts were reasonable, but again, more went past Logan than were kept out.

There also seemed to be a replay of last Saturdays gifting the ball to our opponents so that they could attack and score and an account of Port Vale applying the press, as many of our recent opponents have done to feed off our errors. It happens now with such regularity that, like others, I get the feeling we are too easy to read.

Nevertheless, the most surprising stat for me was how a team that managed to commit 28 fouls over the course of a game could escape the brandishing of a yellow card for 80 minutes.

As I said recently, I find MC's chopping and changing of both formation and players a little difficult to understand. It beggars belief that we can go from the top of the division with a reasonably effective team to a completely different set of players seemingly playing a different formation from one match to the next. To me it looked like we were short of a goalscorer and number 10 and that was about it.

The consistencies have been lack of scoring, gifting opportunities at an alarming rate and being pressed and out-fought for the second ball for the vast majority of the game. OK, we have a young squad, but I don't buy the theory that players should be able to adapt to the role they are given on a match-by-match basis. Surely, successful teams are built on consistency, not chopping and changing and youngsters need time to learn in a match scenario.

As for the manager, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I'm not sure Coops coaches our players to concede possession in the way they do, or to get stuck wondering how to get through a defence, despite what others may think. And why does it need a half-time talk and/or a deficit before the players wake up.

From all accounts, we only ever seem to play in the first and last ten minutes these days, though in all fairness, it's not through lack of overall effort. The players do fight until the end.

That said, I'm not sure we need all these loan players. Apart from a decent no. 10, surely we have enough talent in our squad to build a competitive team. On balance, I'm still on the fence when it comes to the question of whether we need another manager.

Personally, I think we may be too far adrift from the play-off places now. The best we can hope for is not to slip further.

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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby paulK » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:56 am

20yrs and counting wrote:Likewise fans unable to offer vociferous support.


I get the general impression on the main it is unwilling, rather than unable :?:
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby Funfly » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:59 am

I’m not an expert but no one seems to comment on the team captain, I have always assumed that the captain controls the way the team plays minute by minute but this is never referenced in this forum.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby The Cumbrian » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:04 am

If Vince treated Cooper treats the Players he would have gone by now.

A slight drop in form and they are sidelined and some new mediocrity is brought in.

Its really time for him to go. We need a manager that can get the best out of the sort of players we can bring in, not one who continually signs players hoping that he can hammer them into his ineffective system until they get cast aside.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby The Cumbrian » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:07 am

Funfly wrote:I’m not an expert but no one seems to comment on the team captain, I have always assumed that the captain controls the way the team plays minute by minute but this is never referenced in this forum.


That's cricket your thinking of. I don't think the captain has much role in tactics except to maybe try to ensure the players do more or less what they are told, its more about on field personnel management, protecting the players and communicating with the ref.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby paulK » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:08 am

michael wrote:how many no 10's are there now ?-about 8 who all play and look -a -like ?


Do we really have that many? For me a no.10 is about assists and goal-scoring. I thought Jevani a positive move. A shame he got injured.

Jack has been tried, sort of, but Coops has not been consistent in playing the type of formation you might expect a decent no 10 to thrive in.

Odin looks a possibility, but gets played on the outside and hasn't occupied that position.

Personally, not sure what this excess of No. 10's, which seems to have become a forum theme, is based on.

Nothing much else. if at all, to disagree within the rest of your post, tho', Michael.
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby paulK » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:15 am

20yrs and counting wrote: ....... players would often go down easily rather than play an easier option of a killer pass. This must be coached to the players because they all do it.



I guess we could do it Another Way, but I'd imagine either it's is coached by the overall majority of EFL and Premiership managers, or the players just see others doing it and think it a good idea.

At a pinch, I'd say coaches are taught it when they are studying for their coaching badges :?:
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Re: Match thread from The New Lawn (Port Vale).

Postby voodoobluesman » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:33 am

Toxic.

That's The New Lawn at the moment, players, management staff, crowd. All toxic.

We have a good squad, the season's start showed that, but what we don't have is a good team. We started well, but as soon as we went behind heads went down and it started to look like Groundhog Day for the team and the crowd. The team are mainly youngsters, who don't have the experience to deal with this, and a manager that blames them rather than inspires them. We have proven goalscorers who have had the goals coached out of them. There is no self belief in the team whatsoever, and they were left shouting and blaming each others. Possession was awful, I think that we passed more balls to the opposition than our own players. This can only be their mentality.

The crowd have now become numb to this. Like the team, started brightly, but again were stunned into silence by the farce of the game. It was a massacre.

I was stunned into silence, which is a rare thing. Not sure if I can bear to go to Swindon, and really don't think I can go to the Cheltenham game to watch the team I love being absolutely decimated by our neighbours, because I can't see any other result.

Should MC go? I don't think he should be our manager, but equally, this is at a point in the season where promotion is highly unlikely anyway. If he went, who would be in charge until we found a new manager Matt Mills?

Do I think MC will go. Nope.

Things are not good. Something needs to change.
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