Mark Ellis

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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Tommo » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:01 pm

Jefford struggled initially in the wing back role but just as he seemed to be getting the hang of it, he was shipped out. MC tried to trade up with Wishart but he hasn't looked as solid in defence as Jefford and although he makes the occasional good run he rarely trusts going outside to the byline and often passes back. Kelly would be my preference for left wing back.

Woolery and Ellis have done well as loanees. Cooper has benefited hugely from the experience and has, on balance, added value. Wierd back tracking from MC on the use of loanees but I'm glad he has. Gosling hasn't worked out though.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:09 pm

On side with that Tommo. I think he should sign up Ellis, Cooper, and Woolery if he has the opportunity.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby gooseman » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:14 pm

Have you noticed that very few, if any, have talked about Wisharts defensive capabilities or what I should say the lack of his defensive ability. Surely, the primary role of the left back is his defensive duties. Whether he can get forward as well, is a bonus but in my view this has been the undoing for this season. We have conceded far too many goals especially from balls coming in from the right.
I'm not interested whether Wishart cuts in or can go down the line, all I want is a defender that is defensively sound, strong and stops crosses coming in from the left. If you don't concede, you don't lose.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Tommo » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:17 pm

gooseman wrote:Have you noticed that very few, if any, have talked about Wisharts defensive capabilities or what I should say the lack of his defensive ability. Surely, the primary role of the left back is his defensive duties. Whether he can get forward as well, is a bonus but in my view this has been the undoing for this season. We have conceded far too many goals especially from balls coming in from the right.
I'm not interested whether Wishart cuts in or can go down the line, all I want is a defender that is defensively sound, strong and stops crosses coming in from the left. If you don't concede, you don't lose.


I would agree with that - the North Ferriby disaster being the last of a long line of defensive lapses I have seen (hence: "Wishart but he hasn't looked as solid in defence as Jefford"). But as a wing back we need both defence and crossing ability.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Chrisgump11 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:18 pm

Curious cases, both Ben Jefford and Dan Wishart. Frustrating though they may be for our respective clubs, I think they have talent and will prevail

Ben had his initial first team experience under Scott Bartlett at the end of last year and the play-offs. He did well both as left midfield and left back. he started this season as left back, was very sound and was beginning to look sharp on the overlap (tasty shot too). He left at the peak of his form. Perhaps a summer at Sutton will do him good, I hope so as I remember him as being very good with supporters. (Sutton's style is quite different to Coops' Rovers being more robust in nature). Jefford might have been better kept, even with Dan on board but that might have been about balancing budgets and keeping the squad to manageable size?

I think Dan is more complex and also has less natural confidence. He loves to attack and shows pace and a wicked trademark low cross when he gets forward. When he made his debut (4-0 at Aldershot) I thought he was a world beater. But his pace seemed to evaporate when defending against fast and tricky wingers, the main issue being his speed off the mark and will to track back. He lost a lot of confidence mid season when we stumbled so badly, and although his form has been a bit up and down, he's made a general improvement and had some good games in over the last 2 months. Like Jefford, he needs to work with the coaches over the summer.

The good news for Rovers is that Coops' coaching team does appear to be able to improve raw talent. Examples of improved young players at FGR include the outstanding Ethan Pinnock, Monthe & Mullings (who were crude when they arrived) and of course Charlie Cooper who looks a different player now compared to November. Tilt and Woolery are showing promise compared to sketchy first games, and I think Omar Bugiel will be a star
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Mothy » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:52 pm

If you revisit the Chester thread, i think you'll see my comment that Wishart is not good enough and a left back/wing back is a must for the Summer

In the meantime i hope Wishart will shape up for the play offs.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby michael » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:38 pm

Boring myself by repeating it so often, but if you want a league winning side-you have the strongest defence including a top quality left back . jefford, wishart ,jennings ,kelly, monte-non of those are top quality left backs.The fact that kelly is probably the best in that position-shows how exposed the club have been in this position.Never had a quality left back since stokes left ,and until a player of that quality is recruited, imo ,FGR will continue to be play off challengers at best
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Kentstripe » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:35 am

Don't think now is a good time to be singling out any players for criticism, they all need our full support and the confidence to play at their very bewt in the play offs. Wishart has done plenty of good things coming forward and has good pace and strength. What he needs to do is get back quicker when he's caught out of position, and get closer to his man to block crosses. I think he's capable of doing that.

michael wrote:Boring myself by repeating it so often, but if you want a league winning side-you have the strongest defence including a top quality left back . jefford, wishart ,jennings ,kelly, monte-non of those are top quality left backs.The fact that kelly is probably the best in that position-shows how exposed the club have been in this position.Never had a quality left back since stokes left ,and until a player of that quality is recruited, imo ,FGR will continue to be play off challengers at best


Not easy to find a top quality left back tbf, there are naturally less of them around. We were lucky to have a run of years where we always had quality there, Searle, Nicholson, Tonkin, Stonehouse and then Stokes.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby camel » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:26 am

Just out of interest who would people say are the best LBs in this league?

Wasn't Jennings in the NL team of the year last season? Jefford looked capable too. Both were gritty battlers prepared to win the ball no matter what. I haven't seen many better than them at this level, but maybe i don't see other players play enough games to judge.

We conceeded far less goals last season with a settled back four and i think the chopping and changing is a far bigger influence in our defensive frailties this season than individual capability. I'm sure Wishart or Kelly could do a job, but give either of them a good run in the team. Wishart has looked better the more consistently he has played.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Mothy » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:59 am

I find myself in complete agreement with Michael's analysis and conclusion.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby The Jovial Forester » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:38 pm

Just gone on loan to Orient http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41428524
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Tommo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:42 pm

Ouch!
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby FGR123 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:46 pm

With Pinnock going to Barnsley it was important that MC retained Ellis for some continuity in defence. This was one of MC's biggest pre season gaffs.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby man_of_kent » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:52 pm

FGR123 wrote:With Pinnock going to Barnsley it was important that MC retained Ellis for some continuity in defence. This was one of MC's biggest pre season gaffs.


He can't sign if he wasn't available. So what's the gaff? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought this had already been communicated to us. Be careful of criticism without getting your facts right - if that is the case. But I'm happy to stand corrected
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby michael » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:58 pm

maybe Ellis did not want to come to FGR?

frankly-whilst he was ok -i never thought he was that special.

I think the fact that he has gone to Orient, and looking at who Cooper has signed as centre backs -it just shows that to be mid table (not challenging at the top ) it demonstates that to do so,you actually need better players than Mark Ellis.

I certainly underestimated EFL2 -and worse-it seems Mr Cooper did as well
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby camel » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:00 pm

Ref above points I think BBC Glos confirmed he was offered to us and wanted to sign. I'm sure theyd only say so if they had a degree of reliable info.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Norton Boy » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:11 pm

I remember MC saying he would very much like to sign him but he couldn't approach him as he was contracted to Carlisle.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby Tommo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:11 pm

michael wrote:maybe Ellis did not want to come to FGR?

frankly-whilst he was ok -i never thought he was that special.

I think the fact that he has gone to Orient, and looking at who Cooper has signed as centre backs -it just shows that to be mid table (not challenging at the top ) it demonstates that to do so,you actually need better players than Mark Ellis.

I certainly underestimated EFL2 -and worse-it seems Mr Cooper did as well


Good point
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby FGR123 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:27 pm

man_of_kent wrote:
FGR123 wrote:With Pinnock going to Barnsley it was important that MC retained Ellis for some continuity in defence. This was one of MC's biggest pre season gaffs.


He can't sign if he wasn't available. So what's the gaff? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought this had already been communicated to us. Be careful of criticism without getting your facts right - if that is the case. But I'm happy to stand corrected


He was available. MC when interviewed stated Carlisle had wanted a fee and he wasn't prepared to pay when he believed he could get similar quality free elsewhere.
As I say with Ethan going I think it would have been worth paying to keep that continuity at the back. The replacements are sub standard and so I believe it was a gaff.
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Re: Mark Ellis

Postby fgr2016 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:59 pm

Pinnock is the man we were missing. Not Ellis

Just remember the awful spell we had without Pinnock last year. We had Ellis and had made no difference at all. Ellis as as good as we already have.
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