Keanu

All about our First Team

Re: Keanu

Postby Kentstripe » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:14 pm

michael wrote:Is it true to say that where players have progressed from FGR to alleged higher status clubs- they have one thing in common.:

they are 6 foot tall or more .(or minimally -a bit of a 'hard nut' as we used to say-Charlie cooper possibly fits that guise.

thats what it needs at national league/EFL level.

It is a physical game.

so why are so many lightweight players signed in the initial instance ?

KMB has' bulked up' since he has been at FGR


Matty Taylor?
User avatar
Kentstripe
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 4300
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:08 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Theoperator » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:10 pm

You forgot Frear too Michael.

I dont think height comes into it in general its more the requirement for certain positions

Dale Bennett is pretty small, Many full backs are small these days- Danny Rose, Bellerin, Clyne Aspilicueta, all small but very mobile as they have to be now.
CBs usually very tall and bulky, unless better at positioning so can be less tall, good combination for a team is of one tall big, other mobile and good ball reader.
Midfielders, esp box to box or attacking are also often small, faster, able to nip though gaps. Their game is sometimes more about spotting the killer pass quickly. I used to like Jack Munns at CTFC, now Hartlepool. Really superb passer despite 5'5.
Forwards also either very tall, now number 9s up front alone, bulky tall, but some also smaller, faster, and the fox in the box/ number 10 of old also smaller more mobile.
GK- well Arnold was tall, less mobile and didnt get down so fast as Russell. Remember the Gk for Guiseley, smaller than his shorts, but one of the better ones in that division I thought.
you have to have a good footballing brain as well.

Which leaves the question of how academies can really spot a good player at age 8 when the end physique is so uncertain and the footballing brain has yet to fully develop. Perhaps thats why there is a glut of ball skill midfielders but a lack of CBs and GKs
Theoperator
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:13 am

Re: Keanu

Postby Martin Toms » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:23 pm

Chrisgump11 wrote:Brown is talented, no question about that. His drifting, dribbling runs and stinging shots bear witness

This is not to damn him, simply it is plain that he is not yet ready. We saw last year how effective our coaches are in developing nascent talent - witness the emergence of Manny & Shamir as well as Charlie Cooper, compared to their initial appearances. In my view, Reece Brown needs time with Scott Bartlett and Chris Barker. In 6 months time he may be a different proposition and I look forward to seeing that


I don't really understand this, you are saying Reece Brown should train wth the youth team? How will that benefit him both from a coaching viewpoint as surely Mark Cooper and Scott Lindsey are better coaches than Scott Bartlett nad Chris Barker surely as they are coaching at a higher level. Also how will training with youth team players help him adapt to the physical pressures of league two football, he needs to be training and playing in a senior first team environment
Martin Toms
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 10:56 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Chrisgump11 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:34 pm

Scott Bartlett & Chris Barker do not manage the 'youth team'. They manage the whole youth set up which culminates in the Academy cum Development Squad which now plays in a League with other equivalent EFL opposition. There he'd be alongside the likes of Jordan Morris, Jordan Stevens, Anderson, Olly Mehew and other talented works in progress. He'd have a chance to develop his skills and physique whilst playing regularly in competitive football
Chrisgump11
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:02 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Martin Toms » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:11 pm

Chrisgump11 wrote:Scott Bartlett & Chris Barker do not manage the 'youth team'. They manage the whole youth set up which culminates in the Academy cum Development Squad which now plays in a League with other equivalent EFL opposition. There he'd be alongside the likes of Jordan Morris, Jordan Stevens, Anderson, Olly Mehew and other talented works in progress. He'd have a chance to develop his skills and physique whilst playing regularly in competitive football


So how many games does this team play in a league, how regular are the games, do they train together as a squad?

Also I repeat how will he develop better training with those young boys you mentioned compared to training with the likes of Doidge, Collins, Roberts, Monthe etc in terms of physical and experience aspects? Also are you saying Bartlett and Barker are better coaches that he can learn from than Cooper and Lindsey?

In my opinion he will develop better in a senior environment with and against physical, experienced players, he has come out of a better academy than our own which some would say is tippy tappy football to experience the real world of league two football
Martin Toms
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 10:56 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby king giraffe III » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:16 pm

Martin Toms wrote:
Chrisgump11 wrote:Scott Bartlett & Chris Barker do not manage the 'youth team'. They manage the whole youth set up which culminates in the Academy cum Development Squad which now plays in a League with other equivalent EFL opposition. There he'd be alongside the likes of Jordan Morris, Jordan Stevens, Anderson, Olly Mehew and other talented works in progress. He'd have a chance to develop his skills and physique whilst playing regularly in competitive football


So how many games does this team play in a league, how regular are the games, do they train together as a squad?

Also I repeat how will he develop better training with those young boys you mentioned compared to training with the likes of Doidge, Collins, Roberts, Monthe etc in terms of physical and experience aspects? Also are you saying Bartlett and Barker are better coaches that he can learn from than Cooper and Lindsey?

In my opinion he will develop better in a senior environment with and against physical, experienced players, he has come out of a better academy than our own which some would say is tippy tappy football to experience the real world of league two football


It would be better shipping him off to a National League club. If he can perform well there it will be an indicator of whether he will be capable of playing in League Two.
Your hands-down winner.
User avatar
king giraffe III
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Chrisgump11 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:01 am

Ok this is about opinions and what do I (or you) know? My comments were based on the high regard I have for all of our coaching staff, not 'relegating' Reece Brown. He will make it if he deals with his weaknesses

As for confidence, more games like Colchester will destroy any confidence that he might have, and they are hardly the most formidable team in the league. As I said in my account, I felt for him as he was clearly out of his depth; even when he got the ball, he did not have the physique to resist a challenge. The bench understood that which is why he was switched to the right then substituted at half time.

One way or another, Reece will have to challenge himself to progress. That will mean building strength, working out an effective way to tackle and applying himself to techniques like timed jumps and heading. If not, he will never get a foothold in competitive matches. 2-3 years ago, players like Elliott Frear and KMB had some of these deficiencies but hard work saw substantial improvement - even so, they had more height and adult body physique than Reece does at present. I wish only good things for him, but the need for development is obvious.

As regards tackling, much berated Keanu has an interesting and effective technique. Sort of 'pick-pocketing'. He is often the wrong side or behind a player but uses his speed and guile to nick the ball without sliding into the player - less physical and clever. Maybe something Reece might replicate. Keanu also gets up to head the ball now - he did not 2 years ago. Frustrating he may be, but when the planets align, he has the all round game.

Maybe Keanu can help Reece? Stranger things have happened
Chrisgump11
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:02 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Tommo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:31 am

Now we have Randall and Gomes and now Wishart and James have proven that they can do a job out wide or in support of a Number 9 (especially in the case of James) we have more front half of team options than we probably need even with the CheckaTrade trophy rumbling on to stretch the squad.

Once Randall and Gomes are challenging James, Wishart, Brown, Mullings and Bugiel for starting slots alongside Doidge we will start to see who is most deserving of a starting berth on a regular basis. BTW, Mehew, for all his enthusiasm and promise, and even with a good loan spell at Taunton, now has no chance of getting into that bunch on the basis of what I have seen.

Hopefully Gomes and Randall will, despite their youth, prove to be the best of that lot. A front three of Gomes, Doidge and Randall could be pretty potent with Wishart, James and one of Bugiel or Mullings as back up. Where a 'luxury' like Brown (or KMB) would fit in that I don't know and I think LGIII is right in that those not fitting in need to be loaned out. Brown would especially benefit from that to toughen him up and test his attitude. He will get bored training with us and then not playing.

Without a KMB or Brown in the team, a lot falls to Noble to create chances from midfield. Cooper might develop in this regard and Traore can be creative in his 65 minutes when he is far enough forward but we need someone to feed the front three on a regular basis. On the other hand, we will be harder to beat with a team of hard working all rounders in the team - as we proved on Tuesday.

MC now has the squad he is going to have to live with and get the most from for the next several months and I remain positive and expectant of a lower mid table position. Who knows, if these latest two loanees are as strong as the ones who succeeded (Woolery and Ellis) last year then maybe we can do better than that. They may take a bit of time to adjust to the hurly burly of a lower league but I'm hopeful.
User avatar
Tommo
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Horsley

Re: Keanu

Postby camel » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:57 pm

Chrisgump11 wrote:Ok this is about opinions and what do I (or you) know? My comments were based on the high regard I have for all of our coaching staff, not 'relegating' Reece Brown. He will make it if he deals with his weaknesses

As for confidence, more games like Colchester will destroy any confidence that he might have, and they are hardly the most formidable team in the league. As I said in my account, I felt for him as he was clearly out of his depth; even when he got the ball, he did not have the physique to resist a challenge. The bench understood that which is why he was switched to the right then substituted at half time.

One way or another, Reece will have to challenge himself to progress. That will mean building strength, working out an effective way to tackle and applying himself to techniques like timed jumps and heading. If not, he will never get a foothold in competitive matches. 2-3 years ago, players like Elliott Frear and KMB had some of these deficiencies but hard work saw substantial improvement - even so, they had more height and adult body physique than Reece does at present. I wish only good things for him, but the need for development is obvious.

As regards tackling, much berated Keanu has an interesting and effective technique. Sort of 'pick-pocketing'. He is often the wrong side or behind a player but uses his speed and guile to nick the ball without sliding into the player - less physical and clever. Maybe something Reece might replicate. Keanu also gets up to head the ball now - he did not 2 years ago. Frustrating he may be, but when the planets align, he has the all round game.

Maybe Keanu can help Reece? Stranger things have happened


Watching Reece Brown reminds me of when I stepped up from U18s to men's football. It was hard going and no matter what I wanted to do, it was so much harder for not being strong enough and constantly pushed off the ball. I'd agree he needs time to become more physically ready for the challenges ahead. I have no problems with him being in either squad, but I don't think he is ready for 90mins. The other problem is that as the season progresses scouting reports become more detailed and he will become someone teams feel they can force out of the game.
camel
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:57 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Timb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:30 pm

Keanu Marsh Brown to score the winner for Rovers. Nailed on cert for tomorrow :ugeek:
Timb
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 5151
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:12 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:33 pm

Brown may do that. ;)
Quo tendimus?

Nos venit!
User avatar
Fartvs Antiqvvs
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby michael » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:28 pm

a lot of stuff on here reKeanu, but i am delighted he has not left the club.

i have a feeling that both he and mullings will become central part of the team (not squad ) over next few months.

with all the debate re: maybe one thing that many forgot (i certainly did ) is that he signed a contract extention in the summer (see official site summary of 'activity ),si effectively-he is a MC signing-who must deep down-rate him as much as most of us.
hopefully -just a temporary 'out of favour '

slightly odd that there is massive competition in forward line-both out wide and secondary striker/massive competition in defence/in goal, but in central midfield-Traore/Cooper and noble almost pick themselves
michael
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 5558
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:27 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Timb » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:40 pm

In My Dreams. Time to get The Ramones on. And Eastlink. "what a silly day"

Looking forward to tomorrow.
Timb
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 5151
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:12 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby timelapse 72 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:46 am

3.11 https://youtu.be/NWHbhMkZgU4?t=3m11s
Relationship looks kind of frosty between manager & player, sad to see verbal arrows being fired.
Keanu, a naturally gifted player, no doubt about that, just glad he didn't join Cheltenham, was guaranteed he would come back and score a worldie.
User avatar
timelapse 72
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby 20yrs and counting » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:03 am

Still believe Keanu can be integral to a successful season. Now transfer window is shut and speculation put to bed, surely all concerned can make up and look at the bigger picture and keep us in league 2. MC doesn't like playing line hugging traditional wingers, so give him a free role alongside Doidge to roam wherever he can cause havoc.

Just tell him he is guaranteed to start next 4 matches, show me what you can do. None of this 10 minute cameo stuff is no good for anybody.
20yrs and counting
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby camel » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:06 am

timelapse 72 wrote:3.11 https://youtu.be/NWHbhMkZgU4?t=3m11s
Relationship looks kind of frosty between manager & player, sad to see verbal arrows being fired.
Keanu, a naturally gifted player, no doubt about that, just glad he didn't join Cheltenham, was guaranteed he would come back and score a worldie.


Urghhh. The smugness on his face. What a classy man.

I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who will see no problem with this. But think about the rest of the squad and impact it will have on them. I remember last season when MC started criticising players by name and the confidence of many players plummeted. Creating a culture of fear does not breed positive performance. I'm sure many other players recognise this could easily be them, as it was others before KMB.
camel
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:57 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Tommo » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:24 pm

Interesting video clip. Keanu is going to have to go some to get back in the reckoning.

We don't know what has gone on in training but expect most players in the squad will understand why he is not playing at the moment. They will be focused on their own performance and MC won't want anything potentially disrupting that.

I'm surprised no-one has come in with an enquiry for him (or Murphy). Until they do - or they somehow redeem themselves in MC's eyes - they must be a significant drain on Dale's finances.
User avatar
Tommo
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:56 pm
Location: Horsley

Re: Keanu

Postby Timb » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:00 pm

I'm surprised no one came in for Keanu, and certainly a League 1 plus standard player.

Time to work hard and earn a starting place.
Timb
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 5151
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:12 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby Chrisgump11 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:47 pm

Agreed Tim. Not having achieved a move, the ball is in his court

In an ideal world, Keanu would see Coops and ask if he can be given a new start. And to demonstrate that he's earnest, that he'll work his socks off with the Development Squad to get match fit and impress the coaches.

I hate to think that such a dazzling talent may one day look back at this decade and realise that the world might have been at his feet. If only he'd worked as hard as could.
Chrisgump11
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:02 pm

Re: Keanu

Postby GETCARTER » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:55 pm

Ageed Chrisgump, I only hope KMB reads this, and appreciates the following he actually has here at FGR, swallows his pride and knuckles down to regaining full fitness, and earns his rightful place in the first-team squad again. I for one would be proud of him. What an addition a fully fit and committed player he would be to us.
GETCARTER
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:29 pm

PreviousNext

Return to FGR First Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], StonehouseGreen, The Jovial Forester and 1 guest

About FGR

We’re a club that looks to the future, but our identity is forged from a rich 128-year history. Founded in 1889, we’re one of the oldest football clubs in the world.

In 2017, we were promoted to the Football League for the first time in our history – which means we can spread our sustainability message to an even bigger audience. FIFA recently described us as the greenest football club in the world. That’s quite an accolade, and it shows how we’ve been able to bring together football and environmental consciousness at the highest levels of the game.