Summer transfer recruitment

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Summer transfer recruitment

Postby michael » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:59 pm

allow me to emphasise that i want MC to succeed .

Has he made it fairly hard for himself though, by very poor summer recruitment ?

It is an important aspect of the managers job, and i just can't understand , why and how imo it has been so very good up until this summer-but effectively-has fallen off a cliff in the summer months .

of the signings :

Evans/james and probably Brown- all now gently being cast aside.

Roberts and Collins will probably alternate on the basis that there is no-one else.

Not sure the loanees will provide much-including the two latest-fine players for the future maybe-but as loanees-they need to be able to provide consistent and immediate impact/difference (and no matter how good-young players don't give consistency .
(i do have faith in Icanvetti -where was he yesterday ?).

That leaves Laird as the one 'successful' summer signing,who will be a first team regular.

Whilst you never get all signings to be successful-i am not sure that one out of 7/8/9/10 constitutes good summer transfer dealings.
Mr Cooper is surely better than that-
Why has it gone so wrong.

If i am right on the success levels of 60% of the above-no wonder FGR are struggling.
If i am right on 80% or more-heaven help FGR.

No matter of coaching/training/'we worked on it all week' will put that right.

How has it come about that FGR have a side that is worse than last season.

Is it any wonder that FGR are and will struggle .

I just can't see how it will improve .
I don't blame the players-as i posted elsewhere-they are probably performing to the extent of their ability-
there is not any more to come from them -not their fault-they did not sign themselves.


I think Mr Cooper has got his recruitment very very badly wrong-
so good previously
-so bad in the last 4 months

So wrong-that i feel sorry for him.
I imagine that inside he is wishing he could start all over again.

I really want him to succeed
is the summer recruitment minimally-poor and embarrassing to everyone from supporters,to players .to chairman, to manager himself ?
Mr Cooper is better than that.
complete summer aberration/self suicide ?

i think best hope lies with working to get more from bugiel ,mullings/icanvetti , combined with the return of KMB from the siberian salt mines.
My own armchair perspective is that those on the fringes of the 2016 class,offer more short term than the new class of summer 2017.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby king giraffe III » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:14 am

First thing I read this morning. Where are the razor blades? :lol:
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby andymac26 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:27 am

Although Ady P came in for criticism, one thing he did say after a season was 'I like to get my business done early' referring to transfers and bringing new players in. I can't rememember how this played out in reality, but there is common sense here. It allows good time for a new squad to get to know eachother, playing styles, the manager's playing ethos, the area, the club, etc etc.

Two things for me so far are; the late timing some new players arrived, and the value of the pre-season friendlies. I just don't think these elements have helped in terms of where we are now. I would have preferred being tonked 7-0 by Cardiff in a PSF, but going into the first league games with a settled and understanding back four.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby Bronco » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:48 am

Feels like we've signed too many players but no one of real quality. Especially defensively we've signed Evans, Collins, Iacovitti, Fitzwater, Roberts, Laird - that's 6 defenders and yet we've looked awful defensively. If Laird is considered the most successful of the summer signings then that's not saying much. Far too many players brought in on loans or on one year deals as well which doesn't help to build a stable and settled team.

Agree that our pre-season was just a waste of time as well and an opportunity missed to resolve some of the issues that we're facing now.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby voodoobluesman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:20 am

I stated before, and I believe this. I think that MC was offered two year's money at the start of last season to get us up and to get around any FFP rules this year. He took it with both hands, signing the likes of Robert, Murphy, Tubbs, Mullings etc...This then did what it was meant to do, but left us with a decent Conference side, but not a League two side. Having no cash to splash this year, he just took what he can. FGR might not be a desired destination for this level of footballer, and free deals and loans is what he had left for those willing to come to the "village club".

That's why we've got impressionable kids (with potential, but no real meat), older players looking for a payday and Cambridge's cast-off.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby camel » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:32 am

Interesting perspective VDBM.

The one thing I was surprised about was that we didn't sign any players from the National League who are ready to step up. They'd be hungry and more willing to move to the West Country. Given how much of the VNL Cooper and Lindsey will have watched last season I thought they might have picked out one or two players.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby Kentstripe » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:36 am

It will be interesting to look back at this thread in a few months time. Reckon a few of our signings will be viewed a lot more positively by then.

Laird will definitely do well, he's a quality player with a lot of experience at this level, ask Walsall fans, where he was on loan last season in league 1, about him and they'll sing his praises.

Collins is another one who'll do fine once the team has settled down, he's a solid defender again with a lot of experience at this level and is actually pretty good on the ball. Giving him a longer run in defence with a consistent central defensive partner will help us become a lot more solid imo. It really makes a difference to organisation when proper partnerships start to develop, which hasn't happened yet at the back.

Brown has already shown glimpses of his ability, he's got good footwork, scored a cracking free kick v Yeovil and has a good shot on him. He needs to bulk up a bit, but think as the season goes on he'll be an asset and chip in with a few goals and assists.

Of the loanees, Iacovitti is highly rated at Forest and has at times looked good, the problem for him has been a lack of consistency which will be helped by starting to form a better understanding with his defensive colleagues, again something which requires a bit more time and continuity in selection

Randall looked pretty good Saturday, quick, direct, takes his man on and looks to put crosses in early, a decent debut I thought.

Of the rest of our signings, although none have shone yet I think quite a few have a lot more to offer and aren't as bad as some are making out. B Collins especially is getting more stick then he deserves, did very little wrong against Exeter, made a couple of good saves and his kicking was much improved. With a more solid defence in front of him and a bit more support from fans to lift his confidence, I think he'll do ok. Having him and Russell competing for the no 1 spot makes us stronger in that area then last season.

Evans has only made 1 league start, against Barnet, and looked pretty good. Given he seems to primarily be a right back I think he looks like decent cover for Bennett, something we didn't have last season.

I wouldn't be surprised if James comes good either, great work ethic and definitely has something about him. Needs to be used in a way that suits him better though, long diagonals for him to challenge for in the air aren't going to do that. He looks better in tight spaces in and around the box, with the ball at his feet, where he can link up with team mates, play 1-2's etc.

Imo at the moment the biggest problems we have is a lack of continuity and a lack of confidence. Get the first one right, find our strongest team and get more solid as a unit, and the second part will follow, allowing more of our new players to show what they're actually capable of.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby NewForestRover » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:10 pm

Kentstripe wrote:It will be interesting to look back at this thread in a few months time. Reckon a few of our signings will be viewed a lot more positively by then.

Laird will definitely do well, he's a quality player with a lot of experience at this level, ask Walsall fans, where he was on loan last season in league 1, about him and they'll sing his praises.

Collins is another one who'll do fine once the team has settled down, he's a solid defender again with a lot of experience at this level and is actually pretty good on the ball. Giving him a longer run in defence with a consistent central defensive partner will help us become a lot more solid imo. It really makes a difference to organisation when proper partnerships start to develop, which hasn't happened yet at the back.

Brown has already shown glimpses of his ability, he's got good footwork, scored a cracking free kick v Yeovil and has a good shot on him. He needs to bulk up a bit, but think as the season goes on he'll be an asset and chip in with a few goals and assists.

Of the loanees, Iacovitti is highly rated at Forest and has at times looked good, the problem for him has been a lack of consistency which will be helped by starting to form a better understanding with his defensive colleagues, again something which requires a bit more time and continuity in selection

Randall looked pretty good Saturday, quick, direct, takes his man on and looks to put crosses in early, a decent debut I thought.

Of the rest of our signings, although none have shone yet I think quite a few have a lot more to offer and aren't as bad as some are making out. B Collins especially is getting more stick then he deserves, did very little wrong against Exeter, made a couple of good saves and his kicking was much improved. With a more solid defence in front of him and a bit more support from fans to lift his confidence, I think he'll do ok. Having him and Russell competing for the no 1 spot makes us stronger in that area then last season.

Evans has only made 1 league start, against Barnet, and looked pretty good. Given he seems to primarily be a right back I think he looks like decent cover for Bennett, something we didn't have last season.

I wouldn't be surprised if James comes good either, great work ethic and definitely has something about him. Needs to be used in a way that suits him better though, long diagonals for him to challenge for in the air aren't going to do that. He looks better in tight spaces in and around the box, with the ball at his feet, where he can link up with team mates, play 1-2's etc.

Imo at the moment the biggest problems we have is a lack of continuity and a lack of confidence. Get the first one right, find our strongest team and get more solid as a unit, and the second part will follow, allowing more of our new players to show what they're actually capable of.


Great post.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby king giraffe III » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:30 pm

Kentstripe wrote:It will be interesting to look back at this thread in a few months time. Reckon a few of our signings will be viewed a lot more positively by then.

Laird will definitely do well, he's a quality player with a lot of experience at this level, ask Walsall fans, where he was on loan last season in league 1, about him and they'll sing his praises.

Collins is another one who'll do fine once the team has settled down, he's a solid defender again with a lot of experience at this level and is actually pretty good on the ball. Giving him a longer run in defence with a consistent central defensive partner will help us become a lot more solid imo. It really makes a difference to organisation when proper partnerships start to develop, which hasn't happened yet at the back.

Brown has already shown glimpses of his ability, he's got good footwork, scored a cracking free kick v Yeovil and has a good shot on him. He needs to bulk up a bit, but think as the season goes on he'll be an asset and chip in with a few goals and assists.

Of the loanees, Iacovitti is highly rated at Forest and has at times looked good, the problem for him has been a lack of consistency which will be helped by starting to form a better understanding with his defensive colleagues, again something which requires a bit more time and continuity in selection

Randall looked pretty good Saturday, quick, direct, takes his man on and looks to put crosses in early, a decent debut I thought.

Of the rest of our signings, although none have shone yet I think quite a few have a lot more to offer and aren't as bad as some are making out. B Collins especially is getting more stick then he deserves, did very little wrong against Exeter, made a couple of good saves and his kicking was much improved. With a more solid defence in front of him and a bit more support from fans to lift his confidence, I think he'll do ok. Having him and Russell competing for the no 1 spot makes us stronger in that area then last season.

Evans has only made 1 league start, against Barnet, and looked pretty good. Given he seems to primarily be a right back I think he looks like decent cover for Bennett, something we didn't have last season.

I wouldn't be surprised if James comes good either, great work ethic and definitely has something about him. Needs to be used in a way that suits him better though, long diagonals for him to challenge for in the air aren't going to do that. He looks better in tight spaces in and around the box, with the ball at his feet, where he can link up with team mates, play 1-2's etc.

Imo at the moment the biggest problems we have is a lack of continuity and a lack of confidence. Get the first one right, find our strongest team and get more solid as a unit, and the second part will follow, allowing more of our new players to show what they're actually capable of.


What is the strongest team? Especially when it comes to the defence? There is way too much inconsistency. And Cooper demonstrated last year that he is prone to rotating players, even if not for the better.

On a side note... Strange how suggesting someone 'bulk up' is acceptable on this forum, yet I read an 'idiot' told Brown to 'go to the gym' from the South Stand. Just an observation.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby Kentstripe » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:50 pm

Tough to say what our best central defence is. I do like Dale as a cb, that was his main position when he first came here and despite his height he attacks the ball well. If Evans could come in and get up to speed quickly then I'd be tempted to try that, pair Dale with Iacovitti or Monthe, Laird at left back and play Collins in front shielding the back 4.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby Foggy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:53 pm

I definitely agree with trying to build a sound defence, the times we have looked best as a team is with a settled back four, when each player understood what those around them were doing. For me it would be Bennett, Collins, Monthe and Laird, give them a run of games together and I reckon we should be just about fine. Iacovitti is a good player and an able deputy for either Collins or Monthe, as is Fitzwater from what I have seen of him, but I just think the four named are our best option long term.

Only problem is when you start to play either a back three or five...then it gets more complicated!
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby king giraffe III » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:55 pm

Foggy wrote:I definitely agree with trying to build a sound defence, the times we have looked best as a team is with a settled back four, when each player understood what those around them were doing. For me it would be Bennett, Collins, Monthe and Laird, give them a run of games together and I reckon we should be just about fine. Iacovitti is a good player and an able deputy for either Collins or Monthe, as is Fitzwater from what I have seen of him, but I just think the four named are our best option long term.

Only problem is when you start to play either a back three or five...then it gets more complicated!


Build a sound defence? It isn't January yet!
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby Kentstripe » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:05 pm

I honestly don't think we have to sign more defenders to have a more solid defence. We just need to decide on a settled back line and stick with it for a while. If mistakes happen then don't necessarily drop that player every time, keep persisting and build better understanding and team work. You don't have to have the best players in the division to be well organised and hard to break down.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby king giraffe III » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:07 pm

Kentstripe wrote:I honestly don't think we have to sign more defenders to have a more solid defence. We just need to decide on a settled back line and stick with it for a while. If mistakes happen then don't necessarily drop that player every time, keep persisting and build better understanding and team work. You don't have to have the best players in the division to be well organised and hard to break down.


No, but you have to have players capable of being hard to break down beyond that blue moon.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby The Old TomCat » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:25 pm

Kentstripe wrote:I honestly don't think we have to sign more defenders to have a more solid defence. We just need to decide on a settled back line and stick with it for a while. If mistakes happen then don't necessarily drop that player every time, keep persisting and build better understanding and team work. You don't have to have the best players in the division to be well organised and hard to break down.

I agree.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby camel » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:38 pm

I think from the defenders we have we should be okay. Like others have said we need to settle on a back four and allow them time.

When we chopped and changed last season even Pinnock came in for criticism. Changing your defence just creates confusion where you need cohesion

A back four of Bennett, Monthe, Iacoviti, Laird. Stick with Russell in goal is my preference, or Collins just don't keep changing.

The signing that would help more is probably in central midfield with someone to sit in front and really protect the back four. Maybe put other Collins in midfield to provide cover for now? I'd have to see him in training a bit more first.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby greenstripe » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:57 pm

michael wrote:allow me to emphasise that i want MC to succeed .

Has he made it fairly hard for himself though, by very poor summer recruitment ?

It is an important aspect of the managers job, and i just can't understand , why and how imo it has been so very good up until this summer-but effectively-has fallen off a cliff in the summer months .

of the signings :

Evans/james and probably Brown- all now gently being cast aside.

Roberts and Collins will probably alternate on the basis that there is no-one else.

Not sure the loanees will provide much-including the two latest-fine players for the future maybe-but as loanees-they need to be able to provide consistent and immediate impact/difference (and no matter how good-young players don't give consistency .
(i do have faith in Icanvetti -where was he yesterday ?).

That leaves Laird as the one 'successful' summer signing,who will be a first team regular.

Whilst you never get all signings to be successful-i am not sure that one out of 7/8/9/10 constitutes good summer transfer dealings.
Mr Cooper is surely better than that-
Why has it gone so wrong.

If i am right on the success levels of 60% of the above-no wonder FGR are struggling.
If i am right on 80% or more-heaven help FGR.

No matter of coaching/training/'we worked on it all week' will put that right.

How has it come about that FGR have a side that is worse than last season.

Is it any wonder that FGR are and will struggle .

I just can't see how it will improve .
I don't blame the players-as i posted elsewhere-they are probably performing to the extent of their ability-
there is not any more to come from them -not their fault-they did not sign themselves.


I think Mr Cooper has got his recruitment very very badly wrong-
so good previously
-so bad in the last 4 months

So wrong-that i feel sorry for him.
I imagine that inside he is wishing he could start all over again.

I really want him to succeed
is the summer recruitment minimally-poor and embarrassing to everyone from supporters,to players .to chairman, to manager himself ?
Mr Cooper is better than that.
complete summer aberration/self suicide ?

i think best hope lies with working to get more from bugiel ,mullings/icanvetti , combined with the return of KMB from the siberian salt mines.
My own armchair perspective is that those on the fringes of the 2016 class,offer more short term than the new class of summer 2017.


Interesting thoughts and conclusions, thanks for those Michael. I'm sure all but the most optimistic supporters were not wondering something along those lines.

voodoobluesman wrote:I stated before, and I believe this. I think that MC was offered two year's money at the start of last season to get us up and to get around any FFP rules this year. He took it with both hands, signing the likes of Robert, Murphy, Tubbs, Mullings etc...This then did what it was meant to do, but left us with a decent Conference side, but not a League two side. Having no cash to splash this year, he just took what he can. FGR might not be a desired destination for this level of footballer, and free deals and loans is what he had left for those willing to come to the "village club".

That's why we've got impressionable kids (with potential, but no real meat), older players looking for a payday and Cambridge's cast-off.


Well I did wonder if the fair play thing was somehow adversely effecting recruitment this term. But I had no inkling regarding the complete explanation you give here VDBM. That all sounds completely plausible. How depressing if this is the case.

Given your explanation I don't think we can afford to be too choosy in regard to giving KMB, and to a less extent Robert and Murphy another go. If not then get all of them out on loan so they can get fit and show some form where ever they go, and have them ready for a return to us if required.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby SimonC » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:55 pm

voodoobluesman wrote:I stated before, and I believe this. I think that MC was offered two year's money at the start of last season to get us up and to get around any FFP rules this year. He took it with both hands, signing the likes of Robert, Murphy, Tubbs, Mullings etc...This then did what it was meant to do, but left us with a decent Conference side, but not a League two side. Having no cash to splash this year, he just took what he can. FGR might not be a desired destination for this level of footballer, and free deals and loans is what he had left for those willing to come to the "village club".

That's why we've got impressionable kids (with potential, but no real meat), older players looking for a payday and Cambridge's cast-off.


I think you may have hit the nail on the head here.

Very rough fag packet calculations -

Last published results showed turnover £1M, wages £2.5M. So wages were 250% of turnover but there is no FFP in the Conference.

L2 FFP regulations say wages can't be more than 65% of turnover. Allowing for extra TV/Broadcasting income, say £1M, makes Turnover £2M, assuming wages unchanged, that's still wages 125% of turnover! Way over FFP limits and the wage bill would need to be halved to get anywhere near it.

I think in L1/L2 'gifts' ( i.e. loans converted to share equity as DV has done before) from the owner can count towards FFP, so that would be a way around it but maybe DV isn't prepared to carry on bankrolling the club. Once converted to shared it's very unlikely he would see that money again. In the Championship this isn't allowed, hence QPR, Forest, Bolton, Leeds, Blackburn and Fulham have all been embargoed in the last few years.
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby michael » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:38 pm

I simply posed the questions.

Simon and VDBM may have provided explanation.

they may be wrong,
they may be right .
I have no idea.

what i do know though, is that MC is better at recruiting than this seasons record suggests.

there must be an explanation somewhere.
he has managed at this level before-so he knows what it takes-and most of his signings do not provide what it takes.

to sign about 11 players-and only have two -Laird and B Collins as certain starters is just unbelievably poor-so there must be extenuating circumstances-no-one can get it that wrong.

MC is better than that.

The one thing i can never understand is that as opposed to signing 10/11 squad players-would it not have been better to sign3/4 players of real quality to make the difference and be certain starters.

as i say-there must be an explanation somewhere.
unfortunatly-whats done is done.
you reap what you sow.
It does not auger well though-as i can't see any amount of coaching producing that dramatic improvement.

please someone tell me i am wrong.
I read kentstripes post.
hope he/she is right-i don't envisage it the same myself-but so hope KS is correct
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Re: Summer transfer recruitment

Postby timelapse 72 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:03 am

michael wrote:I simply posed the questions.

Simon and VDBM may have provided explanation.

they may be wrong,
they may be right .
I have no idea.

what i do know though, is that MC is better at recruiting than this seasons record suggests.

there must be an explanation somewhere.
he has managed at this level before-so he knows what it takes-and most of his signings do not provide what it takes.

to sign about 11 players-and only have two -Laird and B Collins as certain starters is just unbelievably poor-so there must be extenuating circumstances-no-one can get it that wrong.

MC is better than that.

The one thing i can never understand is that as opposed to signing 10/11 squad players-would it not have been better to sign3/4 players of real quality to make the difference and be certain starters.

as i say-there must be an explanation somewhere.
unfortunatly-whats done is done.
you reap what you sow.
It does not auger well though-as i can't see any amount of coaching producing that dramatic improvement.

please someone tell me i am wrong.
I read kentstripes post.
hope he/she is right-i don't envisage it the same myself-but so hope KS is correct


Or maybe just give players a bit of time & encouragement to find some form & organisation?.
Asking a lot I know.
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