The end is nigh for Cooper

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The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby View From The Pitch » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:44 am

I feel that the end is fast approaching for MC.

I don't know what happened this summer, weather the budget has been slashed or players didn't want to join us. The recruitment this summer has been terrible to say the least. I believe MC is responsible for this as I don't think anyone else decides who signs for us.

A player who performed so well last year has struggled so far this season. Noble looked a really great player last season but the start to this he has been below standard. I don't know weather this is because of the step up to league football or his fitness is not at it's peek.

We are defensively very very weak. Monthe has been way out of his depth and he really can't cope with league football at the moment. For all the experience Laird has again he has failed to impress. I also have to mention Cooper who keeps getting into the team when he is probably y one of the weakest, I think he could make a good impact from the bench but staring we are not seeing him perform well. its as though MC is scared to drop him which I don't understand and as long as he starts we will lose. Now you have to ask is it tactics? Fitness? Or just they are not good enough for the league. I feel some of the criticism of the keeper is harsh. He and Russell have been so exposed in games by the weak defence not coping. Saying that Traoe has been the stand out so far this season, he has been a few levels ahead.

I respect Cooper but he is losing the fans, possibly the board and his job. You can see his frustrating by blaming fans. Cooper was hear last season but maybe we needed someone to do the recruitment.

The next game is crucial and if we fail to win I feel cooper will be gone if not on this occasion a defeat at home to STFC in front of sky will be the final nail in the coffin.
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby voodoobluesman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:20 am

Whilst there is a huge probability that this thread will be deleted as the other similar ones have, here's my 4 euros worth.

From interviews, MC seems to be a lot more stable than last year. Gone is the blame on individuals and the naming and shaming. Gone is the aggression to the press and the crowd. He almost appears...relaxed.

I think that he should certainly be given until Christmas before talks of a manager change are even mooted. There was a defensive improvement (except for one huge error) last night, albeit still a haphazard midfield and lack of sting in the attack. That;s what he needs to do though. Stop the leakage and build from there.

Let's say that he was sacked after the Exeter game and this was the first game under a new manager. We'd probably be talking about a turn around and not as depressed as we are now.

I hope that he can turn it around, we certainly have the squad to do it.
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby michael » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:24 am

'I hope that he can turn it around, we certainly have the squad to do it.'

VDBM-i agree with first part of sentence, but not with the second.

If 'we have the squad' =why has it not produced the required results to date ?
what will be different going forward if its the same squad?

(kindly refrain from the gelling cliche-other teams have completely new squads and it works-gelling is an excuse for failure.
Notwithstanding that-the other 23 teams in the league will also train over the next 7 months, so whilst there may be a bit of improvement from FGR-the same applies to other teams-they also get better -and don't standstill-so you end up where you were surely ?)
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby Tommo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:30 am

This is crazy imo. This is a manager that has got us promoted only 4 months ago. It was only 6 weeks ago that we looked good against Barnet and MK Dons. He needs to be given a chance to turn it around and that could involve several more weeks trying.

I agree that the Port Vale game is very important. I hope we can get enough out of it that talk of MC leaving is put to bed for a while.

I understand that he doesn't go out of his way to endear himself to the fans but his record with us has been very strong, he seems to still have the players willing to lay themselves on the line for the team and we should continue to play our part in turning recent form around.

Lets think about this again in another 6 weeks.
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby Bronco » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:06 am

I would give him 5 games. In those games we really should be taking points off Port Vale and Swindon and Cooper should be well up for his return to Notts County next month. After that we'll be more than a quarter through the season and we'll have seen enough
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby T50 BOS » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:15 am

Lets not forget that according to the reports when he joined Coops is on a 5 year deal. He did what no other manager has done in his first year and taken us into the football league - do we really think Dale is going to pay him his 4 years as a lump sum to go away? I don't think so !!
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby montyc » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:10 am

I don't think the chairman can afford to sack MC at this point in the season. Give it a few months, then if we see no progress and moving up the table to safety things will have to change. Staying up this season has to be the aim for all concerned, I'm no great lover of MC but he did get us to the promised land, keep the faith a tad longer I will be.
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby Tommo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:48 am

At least two managers sacked already this season in the top 5 flights (De Boer and now Nicholson) so it happens but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. As per another thread, avoiding relegation will be good enough (though I still hope for more) and I think we can do that.

I agree that we have to get something out of the Port Vale and Swindon games to look credible but I'd give him longer even if we lose.
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby The Game Within » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:05 pm

The costs mount when you sack a manager, not just his contract to pay up but more offten than not the new manager wants all his own back room staff around him so you could see at least 2 or more leave so having there contracts paused up as well.
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby camel » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:14 pm

I think the best outcome is Mark Cooper turning thins around and at the same time learning to endear himself to the fans a bit more, which isn't hard as most of us want to have a good relationship with him.

Sacking a manager does cost a lot and most managers want new players as well as staff.

We also risk gaining an unfavourable reputation given how we sacked Ady when he achieved what is still our highest ever league finish. Sacking the manager who got us promoted a few games in won't help.

I do think if Cooper hadn't had the player problems he's had and had not had digs at fans that he would not be under the same pressure that he is now.

I want him to succeed, I hope he succeeds. Like many I have some reservations at the moment, but he should get a few more games yet. Improvements in performance and results is needed, but maybe a bit of patience and support for the team is as well. Which is sometimes easier said than done.

If Cooper is to go we need to try and find a manager than can stick to the basis of our new 'footballing DNA' and build on that in the long term, as this will bring more success. Look at Swansea for starters who did it so well for so long.

Our next home game is Swindon on a Friday. I hope we pack the stadium and show the world just how passionate and noisey FGR fans can be.
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby Jaceyboy » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:07 pm

What's the definition of insanity Tommo?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results. That is what we are collectively doing by sending Cooper and team out every game day and expecting it to click.

As I said before it got deleted, you can argue the rights and wrongs and bad luck blah blah blah, but something has to change to give the boys a lift.

Easiest thing is the manager...
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby Kentstripe » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:12 pm

Jaceyboy wrote:What's the definition of insanity Tommo?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results. That is what we are collectively doing by sending Cooper and team out every game day and expecting it to click.


Which is what we did last season, and got promoted.

Under DH, after several seasons of failure, I understood where you were coming from. No matter how long he got, it wasn't going to improve. This time though, we are only 7 games into a season under a manager who has actually achieved something,
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby michael » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:19 pm

don't you slightly contradict yourself -JC.

changing the manager is one thing-but he does not kick the ball-the players do .

not their fault-but they are simply not good enough.
(again-i am surprised how big a step up it is -was not expecting it-but not my job to know such things-Mr Cooper should have known and done better in the summer months-thats his job

very little can be done about that now ,so no point in changing the manager imo.

Bluntly-Mr C got FGR in this mess with poor recruitment
now lets see if he can get FGR out of it.

Frankly-i doubt it-i
I don't think any one can-FGR have got what they have got and hence not any point in changing the manager imo.

Its not a great feeling-but after a while -you get used to losing ,and after a bit longer-gallows humour comes out-and you sort of enjoy it in a weird way

plenty of us have seen and witnessed abject failure
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby NewForestRover » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:43 pm

Sacking a manager quite often makes matters worse. Not just for financial reasons but because of the disruption.

Finding a suitable replacement takes time and a lot of the good work that has been done with the players then becomes unravelled.

I haven't decided how I feel about MC as a manager. As a person I'm not sure I even like him.

It's too soon to consider sacking him though. It would be far more beneficial to us if he can turn things around.
If he had lost the dressing room, it would be different because once that happens he'd be fighting a losing battle. It looks as if the players are playing for him, trying for him and doing their best so there is still plenty of hope.

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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby camel » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:52 pm

NewForestRover wrote:I haven't decided how I feel about MC as a manager. As a person I'm not sure I even like him.


This is why I keep banging on about him needing to endear the fans to him. It's as important to his long term survival as getting points on the board in my view. Hed definitely get more space if he hasn't already alienated a lot of people with his behaviour. I really want to like him and at times he seems decent enough, but he does fall the other side of the line too often for me. I know sport is about winning, but it shouldn't be at any cost. Many players ushered for seemingly "non footballing reasons" out would provide good competition for our current squad. I still live in hope Cooper will prove us wrong and show some humility and more care to fans and players.

Doesn't help him that Ady Pennock (football debates aside) was one of the nicest blokes in the game. Always had time for fans and on a couple of occasions came over to us in Stroud when he saw us in FGR colours just to have a chat. He appreciated the fans in a way I'm not sure Cooper ever will.
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby 20yrs and counting » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:55 pm

We can do nothing till Jan in terms of player recruitment, these are the players MC wanted, so obvs has faith in their ability. Got to give him to mid November, than if new mgr required, new man has month or 2 for thinking of new players.

Like the fact we have gone back to basics 442, keep the same back 4 for next few games. Thing is top 2 centre mids are Nobes and Traore, which would mean leaving out CC, which I think would be the way forward with CC impact from bench. I would like Omar played in his preferred role up front, not the wing. Think Randell picks himself for 1 wing, btw James, Wish and maybe young lads graduated from academy for the other wing.

If MC doesn't get it right, maybe SC for the role. Haven't put full name because it will prob b deleted! I am fully behind MC and cheer the players who are putting max effort, but this can only go on so long.....
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby nwrover » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:00 pm

You don't have to like him... his job is to be successful

He has been to date...historic promotion

This year, we will see

I hope he is

Leadership is not all about being liked it's about making right decisions and motivating people

We will see if he can do that again this year in a new more challenging environment
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby camel » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:08 pm

Nwrover I agree to a point. My main concern is around whether he can keep a dressing room happy. Last season showed he couldn't and he had to bankroll a whole new team mid season.

The fallings out very nearly cost us promotion and certainly cost us a chance at the league title. Our form from the first failings out to end of season was not top three form and would have barely squeezed us in to the playoffs. He had the most talented squad the VNL has ever seen, 3rd in many ways was a failure. Many of the players who have left would still get in this team now.

I think to a degree he needs to be liked by fans to get the most out of the 12th man, both in terms of audible support and revenue to fund the club. Not being liked makes it much easier for people to turn on him and call for his head when things aren't going well.
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby nwrover » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:15 pm

True enough
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Re: The end is nigh for Cooper

Postby michael » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:16 pm

I read above hoe 'likeable' Mr Pennock was-but did he not also get castigated for putting players on the naughty step.

as someone posts above-i could not careless how likeable anyone is (no-one likes me )

If FGR start winning-he will be 'liked'
i just want them to be successful-and its the same with Mr Cooper-i still want him to be very very successful-but boy has he made some errors in recruitment imo
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