The roots of our problems

All about our First Team

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby king giraffe III » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:03 pm

madasahatter wrote:Let me tell you a story.

The game against Cambridge was ‘off the radar’ – too far and too late back.

Thanks to the fixture compiler dovetailing FGR’s and Cheltenham’s fixtures another visit to the LCI Rail stadium was in order. I’ve seen a few of their home games and unforced errors coupled with kamikaze defence had not inspired much confidence and they had languished at the foot of the table, with the trap door beckoning. In their home victory against Colchester they were ably assisted by Madron getting himself sent off when the away side seemed to be rallying from being a goal behind. Cheltenham had managed to acquire a ‘Glaswegian barroom brawler’ by the name of Brian Graham who looked totally lost, lazy and, to mirror the neighbouring consensus, utterly useless. However this was offset by one, Joe Morrell, who is on loan from Bristol City and looked ‘head and shoulders’ above anything else on the park.

Right, onto Tuesday night and the home fixture to pre-season favourites Mansfield Town. I’d already seen the visitors against FGR back in the middle of August, when we were well beaten, with only a disallowed goal for solace. This looked to be a tough game for Cheltenham and with European football on the box plus the lure of the rejuvenated ‘bake off’ to entice prospective attendees, a disappointing crowd of just under 2,500 trudged up to Whaddon Road.

There was a ‘buzz in the air’, don’t know why but it seemed to be infectious, expectancy was the order of the day. Even the officials seemed buoyed; they started the game two minutes early!! So, the referee blows his whistle and we’re off, after 30 seconds you knew that this was not going to be just another game of football. What happened over the next 90 minutes was one of the best team performances I’ve witnessed. Still plenty of mistakes, but, madcap incidents, silky skills, crowd involvement and infectious desire from both team, and especially supporters. At the end, virtually all the fans remained in the stands, or hugging the touch line, three deep, waiting for the players to do their ‘lap of honour’. Followed by the charismatic and impish Gary Johnson soaking up the recognition of a ‘job well done’ and the ragtag and bobtail outfit he had assembled had turned into a team. His customary ‘fist pump’ towards the home end, behind the goal, drawing a tumultuous roar from the fans, 2,500 there, it felt like 25,000.

So, what of Graham and Morrell? Well, they both played and both blended into the team, you couldn’t single them out or any other of the participants, it was a total team performance – no backsliders, they were all stars. How Gary Johnson has done this I do not know and it can all turn in ‘the blink of an eye’ but last night he achieved something that supporters would not have believed possible.

So how does this relate to FGR?

Well hopefully Cheltenham put on a show against Chesterfield on Saturday, but I learnt a lesson last night.

If you believe that things can change, they will. Let’s make it happen.


The difference is Cheltenham have a manager who has shown he can get their side through a relegation struggle. We are not just losing, we are getting whacked.

GETCARTER, you should be telling that to those players who go out onto the pitch. You're effectively blaming forum users for what's going on. I don't know if you're deliberately missing the point. Anyhow, with your cheap WWI references you seem to forget about the 1917 mutinies that weren't just restricted to the French.
Your hands-down winner.
User avatar
king giraffe III
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby FGR-Ledge » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:05 pm

GETCARTER wrote:My brother-in-law, a career Royal Marine used to say " When the going gets tough.........the tough get going". From reading some comments on here from FGR fans, I would not like to be in the trenches with them, waiting for that call to go over the top , relying on your mates to defeat the common enemy as one. ( I would be more scared of being shot in the back by some of those). Get a grip, and get behind the team,come what may. Rome was not built in a day ( but Brian Clough used to answer he was not on that job ! ).


Can you tell that to the players then????

We have got behind these paid so-called professional players every home game, in fact the atmosphere has never been better!!

I think we are allowed a bit of a rant on here, as we are watching utter rubbish at present!!

I always get behind the team, but do I think these players and especially Cooper are doing a good job, or even earning their money? No I do not and we have a right to say so!!
FGR-Ledge
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:58 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby SimonC » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:07 pm

The 3 lads (Morrell, Moore and Hinds) Cheltenham have got on loan from Bristol City are all quality at L2 level and appear to have made a big difference to the team.
SimonC
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:44 am

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby Kentstripe » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:09 pm

SimonC wrote:The 3 lads (Morrell, Moore and Hinds) Cheltenham have got on loan from Bristol City are all quality at L2 level and appear to have made a big difference to the team.


Can you recall them please?
User avatar
Kentstripe
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 4301
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:08 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby TreeHugger » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:18 pm

doggy wrote:
fgr2016 wrote:Like who? Who has he dismissed with this worldly football brain? The press officer doesn't count.

i have followed FGR since 1975 and seen some great football people here, through thick and thin,


No disrespect to any of the people you refer to, but none of them managed to oversee FGR's promotion to the football league. Maybe Dale's approach is exactly what was needed.
TreeHugger
Youth
Youth
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 7:33 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby doggy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:01 pm

TreeHugger wrote:
doggy wrote:
fgr2016 wrote:Like who? Who has he dismissed with this worldly football brain? The press officer doesn't count.

i have followed FGR since 1975 and seen some great football people here, through thick and thin,


No disrespect to any of the people you refer to, but none of them managed to oversee FGR's promotion to the football league. Maybe Dale's approach is exactly what was needed.

None of them had a budget of 2million per year, so he only got we he expected and paid for! Don’t get me wrong I don’t want to be too critical of DV, as I said before I’m not stupid and he saved club from extinction, but I really think his cavalier approach and dismissal of having experienced football advisors around him is a tad naive. There’s always room for improving your knowledge of the game but you need some experienced people on board to do that. Us fans for the most part gauge our team by performances, if Dales Ecotricity sales dropped so dramatically do you think the manager(s) wouldn’t be replaced and maybe he’d poach someone from another energy company to help sort the problem out?
User avatar
doggy
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:53 pm
Location: glawstershire

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby SimonC » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:24 pm

Kentstripe wrote:
SimonC wrote:The 3 lads (Morrell, Moore and Hinds) Cheltenham have got on loan from Bristol City are all quality at L2 level and appear to have made a big difference to the team.


Can you recall them please?


Heh! they're there until Jan 1st and I would imagine there is a very good chance they will be extended to the end of the season

Morrell has been getting rave reviews and has been MOTM in several games
Moore has been solid in defence
Hinds is recovering from concussion but scored goal of the round for Bristol City in the League Cup v Premier League Watford last month

Of course it helps if your son is manager at Ashton Gate but given the Cooper family's links to City I'm surprised this avenue wasn't explored this year as we (City) have players out on loan at Cheltenham, Newport, Torquay, Weston and Bath City of the local clubs.
SimonC
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:44 am

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby thegreenman » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:04 am

Maybe the trouble is fgr have now got to abide by financial fair play rules.

The turnover is nowhere near what the wages are so the singings cooper made pre season were all that the club could afford.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s a maximum of 100% of turnover spent of wages. Our turnover in 2016 was £1million. Our wages then were around the £2 million mark
thegreenman
Youth
Youth
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby doggy » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:14 am

thegreenman wrote:Maybe the trouble is fgr have now got to abide by financial fair play rules.

The turnover is nowhere near what the wages are so the singings cooper made pre season were all that the club could afford.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s a maximum of 100% of turnover spent of wages. Our turnover in 2016 was £1million. Our wages then were around the £2 million mark

My point exactly, long contracts silly wages and there’s your problem if this is the case, experienced advise may have prevented this!
User avatar
doggy
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:53 pm
Location: glawstershire

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby king giraffe III » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:16 am

thegreenman wrote:Maybe the trouble is fgr have now got to abide by financial fair play rules.

The turnover is nowhere near what the wages are so the singings cooper made pre season were all that the club could afford.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s a maximum of 100% of turnover spent of wages. Our turnover in 2016 was £1million. Our wages then were around the £2 million mark


All of which is why we tried to sign Woolery for silly money. :lol:

Also, there is a significant loophole in the FFP rules which allows clubs to get around them to a large extent.
Your hands-down winner.
User avatar
king giraffe III
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby thegreenman » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:45 am

king giraffe III wrote:
thegreenman wrote:Maybe the trouble is fgr have now got to abide by financial fair play rules.

The turnover is nowhere near what the wages are so the singings cooper made pre season were all that the club could afford.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s a maximum of 100% of turnover spent of wages. Our turnover in 2016 was £1million. Our wages then were around the £2 million mark


All of which is why we tried to sign Woolery for silly money. :lol:

Also, there is a significant loophole in the FFP rules which allows clubs to get around them to a large extent.


There might be a loophole but I’m guessing with our very public losses over the last few years we would be one of the clubs that are looked at very closely
thegreenman
Youth
Youth
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby cookiemonster » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:09 am

king giraffe III wrote:
thegreenman wrote:Maybe the trouble is fgr have now got to abide by financial fair play rules.

The turnover is nowhere near what the wages are so the singings cooper made pre season were all that the club could afford.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s a maximum of 100% of turnover spent of wages. Our turnover in 2016 was £1million. Our wages then were around the £2 million mark


All of which is why we tried to sign Woolery for silly money. :lol:

Also, there is a significant loophole in the FFP rules which allows clubs to get around them to a large extent.


Anyone know what the loophole is?

I have always assumed it is allowing main sponsors who are also owners of the club to pour money in arguing they are just paying the market rate for sponsorship, when in fact they are paying substantially over the odds.

But that is just me speculating.
User avatar
cookiemonster
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:17 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby camel » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:10 am

In simple terms I think it's about whether the chairman "gifts" money or "lends" money. One is acceptable, one is not.
camel
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:57 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby SimonC » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:39 pm

Its 65% of turnover at L2 level

The loophole is that 'gifts' have to be converted to share equity, which, put very simply, means that the one doing the gifting is highly unlikely to ever get it back.

And yes it's almost certain FGR's returns will be very closely scrutinized, there are 23 other chairman who will be making sure of that.
SimonC
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:44 am

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby The Cumbrian » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:07 pm

Sorry to have to criticize MC but I really think he has screwed things up. His big no no for me is the imposition of his pet system on players. It doesn't work at this level, the players are not good enough, it also leads to player disgruntlement and falling out. For me it is best at this level to look at the players you have and get your best players playing to their strengths. We lost a lot of good players last season because their talents didn't suit his system. Hence goodbye Racine and Clough with the current central defence inferior and playing at a higher level, and goodbye Frear and now KLB

And now, with forlorn hope of assembling enough players to form a usable squad, he has just been able to sign a megasquad of mediocrity knowing that many of them will need to be cast aside because they don't fit in. We have 5 central defenders none of which seem up to the job and a bunch of unproven young loanees. There is also a bunch of players who were 2 or more levels lower a couple of years ago, with only Bugiel showing any a semblance of potential at this level. Not good recruitment policies.
User avatar
The Cumbrian
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:12 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby GETCARTER » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:42 pm

When the going gets tough - the tough get going !!!. Keep the faith, and get behind the lads, the situation will improve. My glass is always half-full. Always like to improve team-spirit, rather than moan and demoralise the atmosphere. Stand up and be counted. It is so easy to critisise and blame someone else, that is always the easy way out. Which side of the fence do you want to be on ?.Lead from the front, and create a strong team-spirit, with a never-say-die attitude.You need to have someone at the helm that you would run through a brick wall-for. I have been in that situation, and it works, creating a great team, and a winning result.Over to you..................
GETCARTER
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:29 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby king giraffe III » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:34 pm

GETCARTER wrote:When the going gets tough - the tough get going !!!. Keep the faith, and get behind the lads, the situation will improve. My glass is always half-full. Always like to improve team-spirit, rather than moan and demoralise the atmosphere. Stand up and be counted. It is so easy to critisise and blame someone else, that is always the easy way out. Which side of the fence do you want to be on ?.Lead from the front, and create a strong team-spirit, with a never-say-die attitude.You need to have someone at the helm that you would run through a brick wall-for. I have been in that situation, and it works, creating a great team, and a winning result.Over to you..................


Churchill, Field of Dreams, Billy Ocean, the guy at Billericay, Don Quixote. They're all in there.
Your hands-down winner.
User avatar
king giraffe III
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby GETCARTER » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:16 pm

Respect " king giraffe 111". The list does not include Hitler, Stalin , Mussolini, etc, etc though .
GETCARTER
Reserves
Reserves
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:29 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby king giraffe III » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:23 pm

GETCARTER wrote:Respect " king giraffe 111". The list does not include Hitler, Stalin , Mussolini, etc, etc though .


Didn't want to invoke Godwin!
Your hands-down winner.
User avatar
king giraffe III
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: The roots of our problems

Postby doggy » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:37 pm

it appears from post match interview that MC has no one to answer to, he states he is getting no pressure from above! I find this somewhat baffling, as if I were DV I would want to know why our best players are leaving of have left in droves, why the players he has brought in aren't up to league 2 standard, if he believes in them why are they constantly under performing, why our prolific scorer hasn't had the service he deserves and will probably get poached in January, why has he lost the fans, why he`s happy with another home defeat, and why is he still picking up his wages every week whilst under performing himself? And as for the questions posed by the "official" press officers, well, they are weak ,lightweight, predictable and totally pointless, they to, should be ashamed ta call themselves journalists, talk about the possibility of censorship!!! God forbid upsetting the applecart!!
User avatar
doggy
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:53 pm
Location: glawstershire

PreviousNext

Return to FGR First Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ashley, Bing [Bot], Dirtster, Google [Bot], Greeners, Greeners Jnr, mjh and 1 guest

About FGR

We’re a club that looks to the future, but our identity is forged from a rich 128-year history. Founded in 1889, we’re one of the oldest football clubs in the world.

In 2017, we were promoted to the Football League for the first time in our history – which means we can spread our sustainability message to an even bigger audience. FIFA recently described us as the greenest football club in the world. That’s quite an accolade, and it shows how we’ve been able to bring together football and environmental consciousness at the highest levels of the game.