The roots of our problems

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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby FGR-Ledge » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:54 pm

The weak journalists are probably scared they will be banned by Cooper should they dare to ask the questions everyone wants to hear!

Actually thought yesterday's performance showed a lot of improvement though, so I am not as downbeat as I was Tuesday strangely enough.

Oh and the abuse of Cooper Junior yesterday was bang out if order, he was up there as our best player yesterday!
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby Lady Magpie » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:05 pm

We need another striker to help out Doidge. Did anyone see Sky Sport "Goals on Sunday" this morning with Carlton Cole saying he was looking for a club. Only 33 with great experience with West Ham - could we afford him.

This is a tongue in cheek comment.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby GETCARTER » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:34 pm

This was a good suggestion, considering our predicament - he could do a job for us. We could do a lot worse !!.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby michael » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:41 pm

does another striker necessarily mean more goals ?

would it mean one less in midfield/defence where it seems most of the issues lie.

if i understand the rules correctly -other players apart from the 'striker' are allowed to score as well ?

if you don't concede-you get a point at least, and only need score once to win >
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby voodoobluesman » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:52 am

I think that doggie has a bit of a point here. Whilst stakeholder engagement is important, I think that the emphasis is on this too much whilst the football has suffered. All I see is stuff about how great the veganism is, how great the sustainability is, how great it is that they're on FIFA 2017, how many articles they're in. Even the text at the bottom of the forum is all about "spreading the message", rather than playing great football.

Yesterday, all of the news was about how Shamir and Omar won a video game competition.

Whilst all of this is good, the most important thing is the football. If that suffers, who cares about the sustainability or some "message"?

The veganism, the sustainability and the FIFA have no relationship to me following FGR, it's just something on the sidelines.

Perhaps we're taking the eye off of the ball metaphorically and literally.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby Tommo » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:33 am

voodoobluesman wrote:I think that doggie has a bit of a point here. Whilst stakeholder engagement is important, I think that the emphasis is on this too much whilst the football has suffered. All I see is stuff about how great the veganism is, how great the sustainability is, how great it is that they're on FIFA 2017, how many articles they're in. Even the text at the bottom of the forum is all about "spreading the message", rather than playing great football.

Yesterday, all of the news was about how Shamir and Omar won a video game competition.

Whilst all of this is good, the most important thing is the football. If that suffers, who cares about the sustainability or some "message"?

The veganism, the sustainability and the FIFA have no relationship to me following FGR, it's just something on the sidelines.

Perhaps we're taking the eye off of the ball metaphorically and literally.


Agreed that its important that football is the main and critical focus but as long as all the stuff around that is an 'and' not and 'or' thing, I'm ok with it all. We need Dale to stay interested in the football and given he is primarily a businessman and a football man only second, he needs to be satisfied that the overall publicity of the club is high profile and a vehicle for his messages and values and his Ecotricity brand. Otherwise he may go off and find another method for this.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby doggy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:18 pm

The Cumbrian wrote:Sorry to have to criticize MC but I really think he has screwed things up. His big no no for me is the imposition of his pet system on players. It doesn't work at this level, the players are not good enough, it also leads to player disgruntlement and falling out. For me it is best at this level to look at the players you have and get your best players playing to their strengths. We lost a lot of good players last season because their talents didn't suit his system. Hence goodbye Racine and Clough with the current central defence inferior and playing at a higher level, and goodbye Frear and now KLB

And now, with forlorn hope of assembling enough players to form a usable squad, he has just been able to sign a megasquad of mediocrity knowing that many of them will need to be cast aside because they don't fit in. We have 5 central defenders none of which seem up to the job and a bunch of unproven young loanees. There is also a bunch of players who were 2 or more levels lower a couple of years ago, with only Bugiel showing any a semblance of potential at this level. Not good recruitment policies.

As far as MC is concerned, I think this post hits the nail squarely on the head. Barcelona et al can play this way because they have the players to do it, that's why they are world class players on a world class stage, and, whilst the theory of working the ball out from the back and majority possession looks good at that level someone has forgot to tell MC we are a league 2 side with conference players( except 2/3)..they are not good enough to do it, you wouldn't run a Shetland pony in the Derby and expect it to win, whatever tactics you choose! MC needs to look for plans B,C and D, he said when interviewed last week that he wanted to get back to our passing game, but teams know how we play and set up accordingly, Accrington doing just that, let us have the ball, pass it about, go for the killer pass, get tackled or hoof it after all for them just to hit us on the break!! ALL teams now know how MC wants to play, that's another reason for change.Thats why we looked good in the first half because they let us!
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby Seat C32 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:40 pm

Cumbrian and Doggy, a pedigree response. Absolutely correct. I have been saying it since MC arrived at the club, we are trying to play Premiership football with Conference/ League 2 players. If they were as good as we would like them to be they wouldn't be playing for FGR every week. In life you always gets what you pay for and unfortunately the quality of player we would like to see are beyond even our owner. Soccer is like all sport, the better you get the more it costs.
As far as our lack of goal scoring is concerned at present I would like to see a bit more width up front. I thought it was crazy that Wishart was taken off to be substituted by Laird. At least Wishart was going forward and trying to get crosses into the box from the goal line, were as Laird attacks the box from the half way line, and therefore the angle of cross is far easier to defend. Also Reece Brown is a tidy little player with good feet but Marsh-Brown although he might look as if he isn't trying at least has the potential to score from almost impossible situations. It is about time MC mans up to the job and makes up with him because he is one player in our squad that could make a difference.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby Kentstripe » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:59 pm

MC has tried all sorts of different tactics, both formation wise and in our playing style. Imo he has done the right thing in going back to what we do best. We have a squad set up to play passing/possession football and we have to stick to that. The players looked a lot more comfortable in that system on Saturday.

Accrington's management have been extremely praising of our performance, John Coleman's post match comments talked about how you couldn't tell which team were third, how we were running rings around them and they were forced in to putting on an extra midfielder, Scott Brown, to try and counter that. It didn't sound like their game plan was to let us dominate possession based on that, particularly as they are apparently a side that likes to have a lot of the ball.

Was Saturday perfect? No. But what it did show is that when the whole team is working hard, playing the style of football that the players are comfortable with and most importantly playing as a unit we can compete. The margins were very fine, and that can't be said of a lot of our games this season. We have to build on that. Same team, same formation.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby doggy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:15 pm

Kentstripe wrote:MC has tried all sorts of different tactics, both formation wise and in our playing style. Imo he has done the right thing in going back to what we do best. We have a squad set up to play passing/possession football and we have to stick to that. The players looked a lot more comfortable in that system on Saturday.

Accrington's management have been extremely praising of our performance, John Coleman's post match comments talked about how you couldn't tell which team were third, how we were running rings around them and they were forced in to putting on an extra midfielder, Scott Brown, to try and counter that. It didn't sound like their game plan was to let us dominate possession based on that, particularly as they are apparently a side that likes to have a lot of the ball.

Was Saturday perfect? No. But what it did show is that when the whole team is working hard, playing the style of football that the players are comfortable with and most importantly playing as a unit we can compete. The margins were very fine, and that can't be said of a lot of our games this season. We have to build on that. Same team, same formation.

Praise is fine from a manager whose just seen his side win, of course he was pleased, he was going home with 3 points!! when will people accept that we are in October, bottom, cant score, players falling by the wayside and morale low? I would love to be optimistic and if Specsavers did rose tinted glasses I would order a pair!! Where and how is this supposed improvement going to happen? is this set of players suddenly going to find an extra 30%, I don't think so !!!
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby Kentstripe » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:21 pm

Did you go on Saturday Doggy? The difference wasn't 30%. We didn't look like a team of inferior players at all. We competed well all over the pitch, controlled possession and won the ball back pretty quickly when we lost it. We looked like a decent, extremely committed side with a lack of cutting edge. That is a sign of progress imo. We have to build on that now.

The commitment shown by the players certainly didn't look like a side low on morale. Short of confidence maybe, but definitely not of spirit and endeaver.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby doggy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:55 pm

No, in fairness but son did, and the 30% I alluded to was ability rather than effort, I have seen most games this season and players do give 100% effort bit imo they are short on talent, hope that makes more sense, as I say only MY opinion!
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby Timb » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:55 pm

I agree with KS ref Saturday's performance. If we had won I suspect john Coleman would have been saying the same thing.

It was a fine lines performance across the pitch. Zero percentage difference and the game could have gone either way.

Keep up the good work and take it to Nottingham in Saturday.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby GETCARTER » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:39 pm

You can only play a system that your players can play and are happy with.It is all right to say we are going to play like Brazil, but if the team cannot replicate that, your team will not perform.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby SimonC » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:04 pm

A canny bit of psychology from John Coleman - Notts County and Accrington look to be rivals for automatic promotion so it's not going to do any harm to big up Notts County's next opponent.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby king giraffe III » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:13 pm

SimonC wrote:A canny bit of psychology from John Coleman - Notts County and Accrington look to be rivals for automatic promotion so it's not going to do any harm to big up Notts County's next opponent.


Don't destroy their illusions! ;)
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby Kentstripe » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:31 pm

SimonC wrote:A canny bit of psychology from John Coleman - Notts County and Accrington look to be rivals for automatic promotion so it's not going to do any harm to big up Notts County's next opponent.


Very early days to start that, especially given there are so many other teams involved at the top.

If anything I would have thought he'd have wanted them to underestimate us?

Managers usually big up opposition they've beaten to make themselves look good more then anything, or in some cases if they get on well with the opposing manager.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby Timb » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:03 pm

Don't destroy their illusions. :ugeek:
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby cookiemonster » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:40 pm

Kentstripe wrote:
SimonC wrote:A canny bit of psychology from John Coleman - Notts County and Accrington look to be rivals for automatic promotion so it's not going to do any harm to big up Notts County's next opponent.


Very early days to start that, especially given there are so many other teams involved at the top.

If anything I would have thought he'd have wanted them to underestimate us?

Managers usually big up opposition they've beaten to make themselves look good more then anything, or in some cases if they get on well with the opposing manager.


Interesting interview. Contrasts utterly from what Mr Coleman said during the match itself :lol: :lol:

I think there could be an LMA-inspired element of lending support to a beleaguered colleague here too.
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Re: The roots of our problems

Postby king giraffe III » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:57 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
Kentstripe wrote:
SimonC wrote:A canny bit of psychology from John Coleman - Notts County and Accrington look to be rivals for automatic promotion so it's not going to do any harm to big up Notts County's next opponent.


Very early days to start that, especially given there are so many other teams involved at the top.

If anything I would have thought he'd have wanted them to underestimate us?

Managers usually big up opposition they've beaten to make themselves look good more then anything, or in some cases if they get on well with the opposing manager.


Interesting interview. Contrasts utterly from what Mr Coleman said during the match itself :lol: :lol:

I think there could be an LMA-inspired element of lending support to a beleaguered colleague here too.


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About FGR

We’re a club that looks to the future, but our identity is forged from a rich 128-year history. Founded in 1889, we’re one of the oldest football clubs in the world.

In 2017, we were promoted to the Football League for the first time in our history – which means we can spread our sustainability message to an even bigger audience. FIFA recently described us as the greenest football club in the world. That’s quite an accolade, and it shows how we’ve been able to bring together football and environmental consciousness at the highest levels of the game.