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Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:22 am
by doggy
As I posted on the Macclesfield match thread I owe a huge apology to the players, for despite their gallant efforts and total commitment, after the first 5/6 games I posted that they would struggle in the conference, however, after seeing Macclesfield and last nights game between Chester and Wrexham I have to retract that statement, we were so much better than Macclesfield and the quality of last nights game was so so poor compared to what we have seen this season, even club favourites like Wedge and Kelly looked a shadow of who we have now, sorry but it’s true! Neither would get a game now. The gulf between league and non league has grown over the last three seasons and this in part, I think, to the influx of foreign players further up the chain pushing home grown and decent foreign players further down the leagues, this means the quality we are encountering is far greater year on year, good for us as we see better quality football, not so good for academy youth who will probably never develop further up.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:58 am
by Tommo
Agreed. Somehow, having seemingly found our feet at this significantly higher level, we need to find a way to push on now and at least consolidate the better feeling around the place

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:08 am
by michael
I hope you are right-

not just a matter of being 'cautious'-i was/am probably similar to doggy above-but unlike him-i am not sure FGR are out of the mire just yet-two consecutive defeats and its all doom and gloom again.
Yep-standard so much higher than i certainly expected-and i'm not convinced yet that FGR can be at that standard every week-or enough weeks to simply keep above the relegation zone

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:39 am
by Mothy
I think an injury to KMB would put us back to where we were in rapid time. He is that critical.

There may be one or two others that is true of such as Doidge.

There is a degree of fragility here.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:02 am
by Kentstripe
The biggest difference has been at the back imo, we've looked a lot more solid as a unit and as a team are now much harder to play against.

Collins and Fitzwater in particular have been very good, as has Osbourne in front of them. Scoring goals wasn't our biggest issue, and if anything recently we've been creating a bit less going forward but unlike earlier in the season we're not having to score 3 or 4 to win a game.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:57 am
by Timb
I totally agree with Mark Coopers assessment of our revival in his interview.

I won't repeat everything he said.

The whole team is playing better as a unit.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:55 am
by michael
doggy wrote:As I posted on the Macclesfield match thread I owe a huge apology to the players, for despite their gallant efforts and total commitment, after the first 5/6 games I posted that they would struggle in the conference, however, after seeing Macclesfield and last nights game between Chester and Wrexham I have to retract that statement, we were so much better than Macclesfield and the quality of last nights game was so so poor compared to what we have seen this season, even club favourites like Wedge and Kelly looked a shadow of who we have now, sorry but it’s true! Neither would get a game now. The gulf between league and non league has grown over the last three seasons and this in part, I think, to the influx of foreign players further up the chain pushing home grown and decent foreign players further down the leagues, this means the quality we are encountering is far greater year on year, good for us as we see better quality football, not so good for academy youth who will probably never develop further up.


is another sign of the 'increased quality ' of both the EFL and nastional league, the fact that an increasing number of EFL1 and indeed 2 players-and many from the national league are getting called up for international duty-Bugiel a case in point-but many other examples

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:32 pm
by GETCARTER
Against Crawley yesterday we were poor at the back, no cohesion, too many wrong decisions, caught in possession too much, Monthe had an awful game, Alex at left-back was often woefully exposed showing what he is - a loan youth player, this ridiculous act of playing out from the back at every opportunity exposed us dreadfully time after time, creating a lack of confidence in both players and visiting supporters. What must our forwards think when after putting in a full shift, they watch with disbelief when we take unnecessary risks in defence, and gift the ball to the opposition.On the odd occasion when the goalie kicked, it inevitably went directly into touch giving away possession. No wonder the home supporters claimed we are one of the weakest ever teams to get promoted. On the other side of the coin, we are good at creating midfield and forward plays, with KMB and Brown working hard with Doidge ever dangerous, and Osbourne a great addition to the squad . We should have won yesterday, we were by far the better side overall, but made Crawley look good at times with our mistakes. It is obvious that they will continue to struggle this season - but where will we be?. I honestly have supreme confidence in us for the remainder of this season - but look forward to some quality additions to the squad in January. There....i have got it off my chest.....over to you!.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:37 pm
by michael
from GC above :

Against Crawley yesterday we were poor at the back, no cohesion, too many wrong decisions, caught in possession too much, Monthe had an awful game, Alex at left-back was often woefully exposed showing what he is - a loan youth player, this ridiculous act of playing out from the back at every opportunity exposed us dreadfully time after time,




and sadly-thats why i do not (yet -but working on it ) share the optimism of manager and supporters alike that 'tide has turned'.
still seems very naive all round to me

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 pm
by Timb
To be fair to Manny, he received a good few balls when he was already being closed down including one lofted chip from BC which he definitely wasn't expecting.

There were no clear options to play the ball out but we persevered with playing it out even when under pressure.

I thought Brad Collins had probably his best game in an FGR shirt that I have watched this season.

Manny also played at least two great balls forward on the left which led directly to full on attacks.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:28 pm
by The Jovial Forester
Like Tim, thought there were a lot of decent signs, including Brad and Manny. First time I've seen us live for a few months and streets ahead of where we were. Still room for a lot of improvement obviously.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:44 pm
by tommyd
I think we have a good starting 11 but once we lose just one of them we will struggle. We didn't have bennet and apparently the defence is shaky, we'd struggle if we lost any of the back 4 that have become regular or any one of osbourne, doige, KMB or to an extent drissa. Coopers found a half decent 11 but beyond that we are a little weak I think.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:53 pm
by The Old TomCat
Slightly off subject but I think interesting all the same but some footie statistician has detailed FGR formation for every league game this season.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/forest-g ... on_id/2017
According to site MC seems to change formation every few games. Last two games he has had the team 3-5-2 flat !!
I'm useless at working out formations so will not comment but I'm sure others will do.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:27 pm
by Timb
Thanks Tom. Interesting stats.

9 different formations in 16 league games. Not that I'd notice either. :ugeek:

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:03 am
by Tommo
What an interesting site - thanks.

This page initially looked interesting:

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/league-t ... bewerb/GB4

It puts us at the bottom of the table in terms of team market value. This is actually only because most of our players are not allocated a value but it indicates our relative immaturity at this level. Incidentally it values Liam Noble as worth £135k.

Sorting by age is more interesting - only Coventry and Crewe have younger squads

The squad size stat looks unreliable - Coventry apparently have a 34 player squad!

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:53 am
by SkunkMan
Timb wrote:Thanks Tom. Interesting stats.

9 different formations in 16 league games. Not that I'd notice either. :ugeek:


As I've said before, I really do think that changing formation and personnel so frequently after signing so many new players who don't know each others games was the main reason why we struggled so much and leaked goals in the early part of the season.

Having a more settled formation and Driss and Ossie in central midfield together has made a huge difference to our solidity - and having KMB back and the ever-improving Reece Brown starting regularly has given us more creativity. Long may it continue :D

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:22 pm
by 20yrs and counting
If we stay up will all be down to the transfer window in Jan. 4 players needed minimum, not necessarily to go straight in first 11, but options for when Doidge, Drissa tire or Brown, Kmb run out of creative juice, we will need like for like swaps of the same calibre. Good to see Laird getting fitter, Brad growing in confidence and overall team commitment and spirit so good. Still believe MCtook the gap btw nat lg and lg2 2 too lightly. Admit I was surprised at how big the gap.

So impressed with how quickly the younger players seem to be learning and improving every wk. Ideal wish list for Jan would be all experienced pros around 25-28 age range Cb, Cm, Cf ,creative player, maybe back up keeper. I know this will be almost impossible especially after summer recruitment so poor but in MC we trust. Do believe Mc and Scott’s coaching have improved all the players since beginning of season.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:59 pm
by Kentstripe
Not sure why people still saying the summer recruitment was "so poor". Imo it wasn't at all, it's taken a bt of time for things to settle down and too many people jumped to conclusions and overreacted far too early.

At the back B Collins has found his confidence and is looking quality, fits the sweeper keeper role well and is a sharp shot stopper. Deservedly no.1 imo. Lee Collins is now becoming influential, he's a leader and is helping guide the likes of Iacovitti and Fitzwater, the latter of whom in particular has been excellent in recent games. Laird is proven quality and is visibly starting to find his form, he is also another experienced head who speaks well and will I'm sure be a big help to the younger players.

In midfield Osbourne and Brown are looking great signings, Osbourne has become the midfield general we were lacking and has helped take pressure off the rest of the midfield. Brown is an outstanding prospect, technically excellent, plays a lot of astute passes, is pretty good at set pieces and despite his size also works hard. Add Cooper to that when he's fit who is another that will only get better and better and I'd say our midfield signings are starting to look like very good business.

The only area of the pitch where our summer signings have yet to really make an impact imo is in the final third.

So at this point I would say that of this seasons new signings, 8 are or are starting to look like good players at this level, with the majority being young and visibly improving. Hardly a poor transfer window imo.

Of course we'll still have off days, but on the whole I have now seen enough to be very confident that this group of players will quite comfortably keep us up.

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:00 pm
by SkunkMan
michael wrote:from GC above :

Against Crawley yesterday we were poor at the back, no cohesion, too many wrong decisions, caught in possession too much, Monthe had an awful game, Alex at left-back was often woefully exposed showing what he is - a loan youth player, this ridiculous act of playing out from the back at every opportunity exposed us dreadfully time after time,


and sadly-thats why i do not (yet -but working on it ) share the optimism of manager and supporters alike that 'tide has turned'.
still seems very naive all round to me


Let us keep in mind though, in respect of Alex Iacovitti, 'what he is' as you put it - a young centre half played out of position due to the unavailability of Dale Bennett, who would otherwise have doubtless filled one of the full back slots, with Laird in the other. Expecting him to play effectively as a 'wing back', supporting a Back 3 and making an impact in the attacking third, as we expect our 'wing backs' to do in the current system, is therefore quite a big ask.

When playing in the centre of defence, I have been impressed with Alex - strong in the tackle and good in the air. Manny has not been starting regularly, so whether you like it or not, he was possibly not 100% up to the pace of the game.

We will look much more solid with Dale back and players playing in their normal positions - and even without Dale, we still got a point away from home despite another (this time enforced) change in defensive personnel.

If there is a negative here, for me it is why did we not have another 'like for like' full back/wing back available to replace Dale?

Re: Where we are after last month

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:09 pm
by Kentstripe
SkunkMan wrote:If there is a negative here, for me it is why did we not have another full back/wing back available to replace Dale?


We did. We had Dan Wishart on the bench, who did pretty well when he came on. That being said Iacovitti did fine imo, his winger rarely beat him and he positioned himself fairly well.

The reason we didn't win comfortably wasn't our defending, it was down to not capitalising while we were miles on top, which was largely down to luck and poor refereeing. Play like we did for a lot of that game and we'd beat Crawley 9 times out of 10, with 4 or 5 of those being hammerings. The vast majority of the team would have got 8/10 in my book, Manny being the one who looked a bit less comfortable at times.

Can't see too much to grumble about, probably one of our best performances of the season in many respects.