Monthe

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Re: Monthe

Postby Tommo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:40 pm

The Cumbrian wrote:I dont think Monthe is up to it at this level at the moment, but he could develop. He was good last night but his clumsiness will cost time after time.

Fitzwater and Iacovitti are excellent young defenders, if they develop they will do their parent clubs proud.

Roberts ... sorry, I would rather have Racine back or Ellis, even though I would rather have someone better.

Coops need to sign some more players who are well proven at this level. One in each department. Grubb sounds exciting, but there is still a risk coming up two levels.

Two other players I don't think are up to it are Omar and Luke (Sorry guys, you work hard and have a great attitude but not quite..). Just comparing the side with my other club Carlisle, 1st choice eleven FGR probably better, the rest CUFC far far better. I think that applies to most teams in league 2. Our fringe players would struggle to make the bench. Lose a few and we've had it.


Good post imo TC. I think MC said as much after a recent friendly game. We could fit a player who hasn't made it yet but shows hard work and promise (Bugeil, James, Gomes, maybe Stevens) into a team where we have 10 first teamers but not two or three or even four.

The good thing is that MC seems to have generated a good team spirit despite publicly slagging off players at times (Monthe being the latest and not for the first time). I hope that can withstand what is likely to be a tough fixture of Saturday so that we can bounce back over Christmas and into the New Year. That game against Port Vale (not West Brom now) looks critical but we need to go into that at least in touch with the fellow strugglers.
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Re: Monthe

Postby Tomiswalking » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:17 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:Up until his sending off Monthe was probably best player on pitch.
He is a lot better player than in his early days with FGR.
And those at Exeter game gave him a round of applause as he headed down to dressing room.


Thanks OTC I thought I was going mad. In my opinion he defended well against Swindon too. Who else on the team actual takes players on and gets past them? Think it's unfair to blame one player after a defeat.
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Re: Monthe

Postby camel » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:31 pm

Monthe had his name sang a couple of times. He defended well and broke from midfield. He seems to have been the easy scapegoat last night. Charlie Cooper looked more deserving of a red last night to be honest. Some late tackles and a lot of moaning to the ref and a petulant kick away of the ball late on.
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Re: Monthe

Postby Kentstripe » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:52 pm

camel wrote:Charlie Cooper looked more deserving of a red last night to be honest. Some late tackles and a lot of moaning to the ref and a petulant kick away of the ball late on.


Not sure what that's got to do with Monthe's abilities, but any excuse to throw Charlie under the bus, right? :roll:

He was right in his post match interview, when after Bob congratulated him on his performance (despite not being fully fit and having a chest infection), when he said thanks but he was sure that a few of our fans would still be looking to give him stick afterwards. Sad really that a player feels like that, but there you go.
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Re: Monthe

Postby camel » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:06 pm

Kentstripe wrote:
camel wrote:Charlie Cooper looked more deserving of a red last night to be honest. Some late tackles and a lot of moaning to the ref and a petulant kick away of the ball late on.


Not sure what that's got to do with Monthe's abilities, but any excuse to throw Charlie under the bus, right? :roll:

He was right in his post match interview, when after Bob congratulated him on his performance (despite not being fully fit and having a chest infection), when he said thanks but he was sure that a few of our fans would still be looking to give him stick afterwards. Sad really that a player feels like that, but there you go.


How's that chucking him under a bus? I'm just commenting on the red card which has been brought up and putting some context on it that o think arguably Monthe could feel hard done by for getting a red. I haven't said Cooper had a bad game or anything along those lines.

I think if you look back I've stuck up for Charlie quite a few times and started the thread saying I hope we can keep him permanently when he was on loan etc.

If it was another player who had gone in and I'd commented on I don't think you would have leapt to their defence. I think some people have become a bit too protective of him now in reaction to the people who criticise him. Both are damaging in their own way.
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Re: Monthe

Postby The Game Within » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:50 pm

I agree with a comment on the coach back last night, MC should have taken Month off as soon as the ref had a word with him about a foul he'd just commited so we all knew the next foul he'd be off.
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Re: Monthe

Postby Kentstripe » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:58 pm

The Game Within wrote:I agree with a comment on the coach back last night, MC should have taken Month off as soon as the ref had a word with him about a foul he'd just commited so we all knew the next foul he'd be off.


Would have had to put one of the kids on instead though, which would have been a risk.

camel wrote:If it was another player who had gone in and I'd commented on I don't think you would have leapt to their defence. I think some people have become a bit too protective of him now in reaction to the people who criticise him. Both are damaging in their own way.


Personally I would stick up for any player who gives 100%, Charlie is one of those. No one can deny that he gets a lot more negative comments then most other players though, even had his name booed before a game this season, when he's by no means our worst player and was a big part of the greatest day in the clubs history.

On social media before the Exeter game, saw several comments along the lines of - "Oh s*** Cooper's playing we've got no chance" etc when he ended up winning motm. He's well aware of it as well. Don't you find that sad?

Anyway sorry for going o/t. Back to Manny, I think his big problem, like with a lot players of his stature, is he seems to get the rough end of a lot of decsions. Bit like Andy Carroll or Peter Crouch do. He isn't a dirty player at all imo.
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Re: Monthe

Postby fulltimefanatic » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:07 pm

king giraffe III wrote:
Spike wrote:
FGR-Ledge wrote:Roberts is worse in my opinion.


Totally agree, his performance away at Wycombe this season was the stuff of nightmares and he hasn't improved.


Watching him is like watching some old act from the 1960s or 70s who are doing the town hall circuit. They've obviously been decent at some point, but the body is no longer able to keep up. It's not his fault, but he has been a very poor signing.


This. Remember a Stevenage fan saying at the time - great player and leader, but the legs had gone. Though we had similar in the Conference era brought in with great fanfare - Tony Butler springs to mind but undoubtedly there were others.

Re: Monthe - I so want him to succeed and believe he can. He had cult hero status at Bath and as others have said has all the attributes. Akinfenwa didn't get much change out of him when he came on...and not many League Two defenders can say that given the goals he's plundered this season (admittedly Wycombe were three up). Fair to say a poor touch has cost him two red cards?

I remember years ago we played Tamworth and they had a centre half in their ranks by the name of Aaron Brown. Imperious in the air and in the tackle but any danger and he'd just hoof it down field. Didn't seem to do him any harm as he secured a move to Reading shortly afterwards. Maybe something to think about?
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Re: Monthe

Postby camel » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:13 pm

Kentstripe wrote:
The Game Within wrote:I agree with a comment on the coach back last night, MC should have taken Month off as soon as the ref had a word with him about a foul he'd just commited so we all knew the next foul he'd be off.


Would have had to put one of the kids on instead though, which would have been a risk.

camel wrote:If it was another player who had gone in and I'd commented on I don't think you would have leapt to their defence. I think some people have become a bit too protective of him now in reaction to the people who criticise him. Both are damaging in their own way.


Personally I would stick up for any player who gives 100%, Charlie is one of those. No one can deny that he gets a lot more negative comments then most other players though, even had his name booed before a game this season, when he's by no means our worst player and was a big part of the greatest day in the clubs history.

On social media before the Exeter game, saw several comments along the lines of - "Oh s*** Cooper's playing we've got no chance" etc when he ended up winning motm. He's well aware of it as well. Don't you find that sad?

Anyway sorry for going o/t. Back to Manny, I think his big problem, like with a lot players of his stature, is he seems to get the rough end of a lot of decsions. Bit like Andy Carroll or Peter Crouch do. He isn't a dirty player at all imo.


I agree Kentstripe. A lot of what gets said is over the top and unfounded and must make him wonder why he is here. The same could be said of other players too, but not too the same extent. There were a few singled out for it last night amongst the crowd. I'd rather we were a club known for getting behind players than pegging them down. Word gets around and good fans help attract players.

I only pointed out Cooper because I felt it was relevant to the Monthe discussion. Arguably the tackles were due to commitment and just a bit OTT or late, but one did make me wince a bit. I do think he needs to argue a bit less with the ref though. But for some players that is part and parcel with the commitment, e.g. Rooney in his earlier years. I think debate about that is legitimate which is why i feel sometimes we protect him too much if we completely avoid any critique of him.

Overall I thought he did well considering he has been out so long. One cross field pass in the first half was delightful and his energy is an asset closing players down.

As for Monthe I'd agree. It reminds me of Crouch playing in Europe or for England, his size seemed to count against him. I think he is better than a lot of people recognise too, but it's a game of opinions.
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Re: Monthe

Postby Forest Fan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:00 pm

"Monthe is not good enough", "Roberts is even worse", "Fitzwater and Iacovitti are excellent young defenders"

How about looking at some stats, in this case for defenders, goals conceded versus minutes on the pitch.

Minutes played / Goals conceded / Mins per goal

Fitzwater 1282 16 80.13
Monthe 1009 13 77.62
Collins B 1920 35 54.86
Bennett 2241 41 54.66
<< Total >> 2670 49 54.49
Wishart 1029 19 54.16
Russell 750 14 53.57
Collins L 2280 43 53.02
Laird 1984 38 52.21
Roberts 1324 29 45.66
Iacovitti 1334 31 43.03
Evans 68 2 34.00

Matches include league and all 3 cups.
Sometimes 90 minutes is just not enough.
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Re: Monthe

Postby king giraffe III » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:27 pm

Forest Fan wrote:"Monthe is not good enough", "Roberts is even worse", "Fitzwater and Iacovitti are excellent young defenders"

How about looking at some stats, in this case for defenders, goals conceded versus minutes on the pitch.

Minutes played / Goals conceded / Mins per goal

Fitzwater 1282 16 80.13
Monthe 1009 13 77.62
Collins B 1920 35 54.86
Bennett 2241 41 54.66
<< Total >> 2670 49 54.49
Wishart 1029 19 54.16
Russell 750 14 53.57
Collins L 2280 43 53.02
Laird 1984 38 52.21
Roberts 1324 29 45.66
Iacovitti 1334 31 43.03
Evans 68 2 34.00

Matches include league and all 3 cups.


For me, the jury is still out on Iacovitti. Not convinced.
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Re: Monthe

Postby michael » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:56 am

admittedly only seen him twice (maybe thrice ) but for me- lacovitti -is one of Mr Coopers better loan signings and i rate him highly.(as centre back/not full back )
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Re: Monthe

Postby GETCARTER » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:28 am

Agree re:- AI at centre-back is useful and shows promise, but not at fullback, where we saw him at Crawley getting skinned a few times.
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Re: Monthe

Postby The Cumbrian » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:39 am

king giraffe III wrote:
Forest Fan wrote:"Monthe is not good enough", "Roberts is even worse", "Fitzwater and Iacovitti are excellent young defenders"

How about looking at some stats, in this case for defenders, goals conceded versus minutes on the pitch.

Minutes played / Goals conceded / Mins per goal

Fitzwater 1282 16 80.13

For me, the jury is still out on Iacovitti. Not convinced.


Good stat, Fitzwater is remarkably consistent for a young defender, Iocovitti less so but he has all of the required attributes. Young defenders, no matter how good, need an old head beside them.

Fitzwater was out during the long run of defeats, and his return has made a difference but there were other factors at play there.
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Re: Monthe

Postby Chrisgump11 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:40 pm

Absolutely agree with OTC. Until his extra time fouls - possibly to do with tiredness - Manny had had a superb game and would have been my man of the match. His footwork and counter attacks are dazzling at times, and he's our strongest centre back. And that is the game Coops wants him to play.

He alone countered Akinfenwa when he came on v Wycombe.

It is crushing that he'll be missing v Luton and I only hope that these harsh lessons will be quickly learned by a relatively young and inexperienced player. As I've said on a number of occasions, his dismissal at Chesterfield was a travesty.

Dale Bennett's past is checkered but despite the Exeter incident, he has matured into a fine player. Manny deserves similar support and it does not help to single him out like this on a thread under his name
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Re: Monthe

Postby cookiemonster » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:19 pm

What ChrisGump said.

Let's remember the guy is only 22 and CBs tend not to reach their prime until late 20s.

He has all the attributes (pace, power, strength and a fair amount of skill) to make it at a higher level. There was one occasion on Tuesday when he let the winger go past him and then caught him up again, which was very impressive. He just needs to cut out the silly mistakes, which is eminently doable.
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Re: Monthe

Postby Timb » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:44 pm

Good player with bags of potential and the stats show he does what he's employed to do.

It's funny but after Exeter had a man sent off I was waiting for the ref to even it up.
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Re: Monthe

Postby GETCARTER » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:41 pm

It is so obvious the Manny has massive potential, but .............he must learn and be taught when and where he can express himself. It is a bit like a loose cannon going off, you never know where it is going to end up.We need to encourage him, and hope he learns from the advice given to him.
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