Referees

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Referees

Postby doggy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:56 am

With plenty of criticism concerning referees of late I would like to put my slant on it from some small experience I have had during the last 7 years.
The refereeing at all levels appears to be dodgy but believe me its not that bad compared to some on the continent, however, I believe there is a lot of room for improvement and I will try to explain why I think we have a shortfall of good refs.
Its obvious that its one of the most difficult jobs in sport, but, for me the problem stems from grass roots football. My son started reffing at the age of 16 and away from academy football he officiated a lot of under 9/10/11 games at local level, and this is where it started. During one game in Churchdown a young lad in an under 10`s game slid in rather rashly, both my son and myself (doing line) gave the foul,but, before my son could react the home management were in his face calling him a useless "C" and an "effing pri!!!!..", they continued the abuse to the extent that I suggested he should abandon game, but, in fairness he said "it was not the kids fault, only the adults", I could not let it go and suggested the main aggressor do the flag, but he did not!
This type of abuse became run of the mill, and followed my son through to county level, where he was again abused by management, even to the point where he was followed into the car park and threatened!! Now I realise you may be thinking "perhaps he was no good" but I can tell you this was not the case, at 17 he was selected to ref at the under 11`s Champions league and reffed Man.city v Ajax and Barcelona .v. Chelsea and was considered by his mentor as a future star, nowadays he will only ref FA cup and academy games as there is less aggro, this in my opinion is one of the main reasons the quality of referees is questionable, when a young lad who wants to enjoy the sport feels he cannot because its not worth all the hassle, and, he is not alone, he tells me a lot of his colleagues have also taken early retirement.
So, in summary, we all moan at refs and linemen, I am no exception, but my moans are always tempered by the fact that there is a real reason for the lack of quality as i have tried to explain, the ones we have do their best in hostile and often weather dominated enviroment , where play is at 100mph, they are probably not the cream of the crop as explained above, only those who run the FA can resolve this and away from the Prem there is a huge shortfall of proper care,policing and help for young refs.
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Re: Referees

Postby king giraffe III » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:12 pm

The only problem with referees is that they are all involved in a conspiracy against us. Mentioning punches to the back of an opponent's head in a report. Waving red cards for a two footed challenge. What's it all about?
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Re: Referees

Postby doggy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:29 pm

king giraffe III wrote:The only problem with referees is that they are all involved in a conspiracy against us. Mentioning punches to the back of an opponent's head in a report. Waving red cards for a two footed challenge. What's it all about?

Ha! Yes, MC certainly spends nearly every match walking off with the officials, if he has not already fallen out with them before, and , it must be very frustrating being a manager at times, especially as its human nature to think all is against us, my personal gripe is the ball never seems to fall to one of our players when the second ball comes into play, stats would probably prove me wrong, but i would like to think that in his heart MC knows why officials fall short, and its up to him and other football pro`s to lobby the FA for better protection at grass roots, to respect those in Black and to help achieve a better standard of referee.
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Re: Referees

Postby Lady Magpie » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:07 pm

I took my referee's exam's in the mid 70's and started with youth matches, Stroud League and County Line, not the heady heights of league football. It didn't take me long to understand how hard it could be and the abuse you can take. I was refereeing a match in Gloucester at a team with a rather bad reputation for discipline, There were cynical tackles going on particularly from a player with a bad history. Finally I had to send him off when he punch another player in the face, he gave his name as Pele which I know wasn't true, and said "what just for that ref".

On my way home over Horsepools Hill I recognised him in a car following me and he soon roar past me but forced me onto the path against a hedge before speeding off. I only lasted a few years refereeing because of the abuse from players and supporters. Oh, a couple of weeks later I heard that the player was back in prison for his off-pitch activities.

On a funnier note, I was hit over the head by an old ladies umbrella whilst on the line at a County League match in Sharpness (The old pitch in the docks), I had flagged one of her players offside. I was harassed all match on the line at Shortwood, many of my workmates from McEvoys were in the crowd and walked up and down behind me. Finally I was refereeing a youth match between King's Stanley and Cashes Green, my Son was in goal for Cashes Green. His language was terrible and I had to warn him he would get a booking or even sent off. He replied, "That's OK you would have to pay my fine".

It's hard and difficult being a referee so I don't criticise them very often.
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Re: Referees

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:47 pm

Yes L/M. What has become of Amy Fearn? I remember her refereeing a couple of times here, in the conference/National league. I remember Adriano Rigoglioso getting on the wrong side of her. On the second occasion he was pulled up, towering above her whilst her lecture was going on, he turned on the Italian side of his charm and got away with a possible booking.
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Re: Referees

Postby man_of_kent » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:42 pm

For me, the officials are the aspect of the football industry that are professional and have any decent level of credibility.

I'm always amazed at how good they are - in comparison players, managers, TV pundit, fans show a horrific inability to understand the laws of the game (even the basic stuff) - or at least they portray that Impression.

How many time do we see TV and their so call expert pundits watch an incident many many times and they can't even agree - embarrassing.

I rarely see a blatantly wrong decision. I see lots of decisions within the uncertainties of the interpretation of the laws and done on a case by case basis by the official and depend on the momentum/behaviours within the game - which is fine - either way the decision is acceptable. The ref is best placed to see. Its not necessarily inconsistency of the officials. A concept that I think people struggle to understand. Well that my take.

The parents things is just **** parents and/or people/kids with "other issues".
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Re: Referees

Postby GETCARTER » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:48 pm

Just look at the games of soccer compared to rugby - with soccer the ref is not respected by the majority and is abused frequently by all, but with rugby the ref is respected by all and what he says goes. Even on TV reports later in rugby, managers do not criticise the ref - it is so refreshing. It all starts with the Governing bodies who are in control of the games.
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Re: Referees

Postby tommyd » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:52 pm

GETCARTER wrote:Just look at the games of soccer compared to rugby - with soccer the ref is not respected by the majority and is abused frequently by all, but with rugby the ref is respected by all and what he says goes. Even on TV reports later in rugby, managers do not criticise the ref - it is so refreshing. It all starts with the Governing bodies who are in control of the games.


This is true but I would say rugby is a VERY different game and has a lot less rules that are open to interpretation.
The way to deal with it is through cards, bans and abandoning games if people can't behave.
People like to have someone to blame and unfortunately the referee is usually targeted because people won't blame one of their own and you can't blame the opposition because they're trying to win just like you so that leave s the man in the middle.
I would also say referees should be paid a hell of a lot more which would hopefully keep some of the better ones in the game.
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Re: Referees

Postby Too occasional fan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:24 pm

So Football should try
Captains only to speak to referees.
Dissent not from Captain = Yellow, even if that means quite a number of players carded.
Yellow = sin bin for 10 minutes, so a yellow actually matters and players are less likely to take one for the team to save a goal opportunity (like last night)

As for the managers challenging the 4th official, and setting a dissent example to their players? Off to the stands and a large fine.

If referees aren’t good enough, protect them, train them. Don’t castigate them as that just makes the problem worse.
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Re: Referees

Postby Chrisgump11 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:26 pm

I agree with the comments about respecting referees, backing them up and so on. Yet some officials are noticeably poorer than others or more responsive to larger, partisan crowds

But there are problems on all sides notably cheating by players and inaction by their clubs. Football is the only sport where this happens, professionals trying to dupe the officials continuously and seemingly happy to get fellow professionals into trouble by such means. Sure its a problem for the EFL, FA & all football authorities but also the Professional Footballers Association and the Managers own body - all should be taking action and the idea of professionals cheating professionals would be punished by their representative bodies as happens in other walks of life

FGR players have been part and parcel like most teams. The cheating dives are often self harming too - Drissa has got into the habit of falling when barely touched, several times outside his own penalty area when we are in danger. He was rightly booked at Chesterfield when falling and grabbing the ball. He's not alone but is the most blatant. Omar's penalty dive at Dagenham & Redbridge was equally shameful. Yet how often have coaches or managers sought to condemn such actions - as quickly as they do a wrong refereeing decision?

But if fairness to Coops, under his management, we generally concede far fewer fouls than our opponents and are more sinned against than sinning. Ady's record was awful.

I see little difference between refereeing standards in NL and EFL, rather with bigger crowds 'homing' appears more obvious

Examples this year of some very poor decisions: deliberate handball outside the box by the Crawley keeper when Doidge had dinked the ball past him - yellow card awarded not red, similarly Exeter City's cynical pull on Doidge when through with the goal gaping. Bennett's 2 yellows at Swindon and Jack Fitzwaters' at Grimsby and Manny's dismissal at Chesterfield were all poor assessments that directly influenced the games. Interestingly from FGR's point of view, referees seem unsympathetic to Bradley assessing his options when passing out from the back - they want it hoofed, the quicker the better!

I do think that Coops' anger rebounds too, with the official transferring his ire to the manager's player. I'm sure that is what happened to Dale Bennett at Swindon added to the likelihood of a sending off being imminent after the home side had so suffered. How many times have we all anticipated a referee 'evening things up'? That said, the 2 brothers at Lincoln use such antics openly every match and are not similarly penalised despite the fierce criticism it rightly brings from other clubs.

At the Grimsby game, when we broke from our own half on several occasions, cynical trips and grabs (just like Manny's at Exeter) were not punished by a yellow card - but the referee was incredibly hard on what he regarded as 'time wasting' by Brad Collins & Fitzwater. I don't think either was, certainly not Jack, but it is difficult to believe that the official was not playing to the home crowd

Manny's second yellow at Exeter was foolish and he'd already had some near misses. By the same token, earlier he had his shirt ripped from top to bottom by several successive holding fouls that were plainly obvious yet unpunished. Inconsistency in the extreme and hard to understand how such things could be missed.

Honestly, some fouls are becoming an epidemic. Shirt grabbing and general holding of the opponent - yet on the rare occasions they are penalised the offenders seem not to know what they have done. 10 penalties a game 'could' be awarded as there seems to be a general expectation that pushing, pulling & grabbing will be overlooked and happens as a matter of course. Just occasionally a penalty is given, cue pandemonium

Sadly, there is little sign of honesty breaking out at any level of the game. It is an imperfect game that is becoming more rather than less so. But it will not stop any supporter berating poor treatment of a player by an official - never has, never will do and I'm no different!
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Re: Referees

Postby GETCARTER » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:19 pm

I remember quite a few years ago when one of our better players from The Castle School, Thornbury was picked up by BCFC, and he was telling me that Russel Osman was coaching the defenders to step back when being man-marked, treading on the toes of the attackers, and disrupting their train of thought, thus gaining an advantage. God help us ......
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Re: Referees

Postby doggy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:43 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42677016
Even more reasons today for professional referees for professional games, we have seen our share, but let’s not “shoot” the ones we have!!
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Re: Referees

Postby lovejoy2 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:59 am

Fartvs Antiqvvs wrote:Yes L/M. What has become of Amy Fearn? I remember her refereeing a couple of times here, in the conference/National league. I remember Adriano Rigoglioso getting on the wrong side of her. On the second occasion he was pulled up, towering above her whilst her lecture was going on, he turned on the Italian side of his charm and got away with a possible booking.


She was the 4th Official in our game yesterday
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Re: Referees

Postby montyc » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:52 pm

Questions are being asked about the physical fitness of league 1&2 ref, not sure about the one at Swindon yesterday, certainly not fit to ref any match
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Re: Referees

Postby GETCARTER » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:27 pm

I heard Darren Ferguson talking on the radio last night re: the ref at his game - his comments were outrageous as he said that bad referees should be shot and they are all unfit. If the FA allow people in so-called responsible positions to openly criticise officials, then we really have no hope. Listen to Arsene Wenger after an Arsenal defeat, listen to any televised match, and all you hear is how many mistakes the ref. has made. As i have stated on here before, you rarely get the amount of abuse to officials in rugby. Maybe the difference is that those in charge of the national game do not allow criticism of match officials. As a footnote, being a qualified PE teacher from Loughborough Uni, and a fully qualified referee at County level, and having taken charge of inter-school matches for some 30 years, some years ago in Thornbury, on a Saturday morning a friend said to me that the ref had called off sick on his son's Under 8 soccer match for Thornbury Falcons v a team from Gloucester. I readily agreed, but right from the kick-off i was subjected to a torrent of personal abuse from the away officials and parents, swearing loudly at me over the most minor decisions. It could have been extremely intimidating to someone lesser experienced than me, but it was still unpleasant and unnecessary, and no wonder that many referees give up the game early. It should not be allowed to happen and the County FA should stand up to this abuse. I did say to my friend afterwards, please do not ask me again !!!.
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