Charlie Cooper

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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby Tomiswalking » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:24 am

king giraffe III wrote:
Tomiswalking wrote:What are the counts?


Dracula, Michael Bisping and Monte Cristo.


:lol:
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby Tomiswalking » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:36 am

Foggy wrote:I do get it, some of our players are lacking in confidence, Reuben Reid alluded to that in his interview after the Port Vale game.


Forgetting any argument for a sec, I think that's why we need more noise at the ground, more encouragement. The fans have lost confidence too but let's keep it going! Can't wait for Swindon!! COYR
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby mauler » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:41 am

Count Duku and Count Backwards off of Sesame Street.

Live the young man alone!
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby Old Git » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 am

The ill feeling that always follows Charlie's selection is NOT directed at Charlie. Everyone I know regards him as a hard working, enthusiastic young lad. It is directed at his dad for making the selections and the club for supporting blatant nepotism. If decisions at the club were taken because of a persons race or sex there would be uproar and rightly so. When the manager continues to select his son when he so clearly is not of the required standard anyone who voices their objection is reviled. I appeal to the club to take action to stop this as all appeals to Mark Cooper are falling on deaf ears and the ill feeling will just rumble on.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby Kentstripe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:00 am

Old Git wrote:I appeal to the club to take action to stop this as all appeals to Mark Cooper are falling on deaf ears and the ill feeling will just rumble on.


That isn't how football works, or should work, and you know it. It should be up to the manager to pick whatever team he feels is the best to get results. That's what he's paid for, and outside influences should be ignored and he should be left to get on with it. It's a results business, and lack of results is what costs people their jobs. So no manager will intentionally pick a team not capable of getting results.

The rest is just opinions, some rate Charlie, some don't. People are entitled to their opinion, but cannot for the life of me see what benefit booing his name or screaming abuse at him people think will bring to the team. From what I know he is fairly well liked amongst his team mates, and none of them enjoy witnessing the stick he gets.

It's been mentioned to me, and I agree, that his role in the team is meant to be in the midfield engine room, ie work hard, harry the opposition and keep the ball moving with simple passes. There are a number of players at the top level who spend most of their time playing doing that, and most of them don't get abuse for it at all. He has potential, but his confidence is understandably low atm which is hardly helping him shine.

The lack of movement up front doesn't help him either, people always shout forwards when often a heavily marked Doidge is the only option and so possession would almost certainly be lost. Which would result in more stick. Start having more runners/better movement, then you'll see all our players, including him, playing more forward passes.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby The Cumbrian » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:20 am

There is nothing wrong with Charlie as a player in the right set up, i just dont think its healthy to have father and son in the same club, especially when he seems to be imune to being dropped. I think it fosters mistrust and s generally toxic atmosphere.

If you know any long in the tooth Burnley fans you could maybe ask about Brian + Dave Miller. I dont know if it was a good or bad tjing but dad sold son to Carlisle in the end.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby SkunkMan » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:54 am

It saddens me to see a thread like this. Again...

I accept that this is a forum and people are entitled to their opinions, but we have had many players this season who have not looked up to scratch, yet they seemingly do not get singled out for criticism in this way. Sadly I fear that for young Charlie, because his Dad is the boss, he will always be damned whatever he does...it will never be 'good enough'.

Shamir Mullings danced around the pitch at Wembley, made himself a bit of a cult figure, but has failed to deliver anything on the pitch. Now he is departing, shrouded in controversy. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Manny Monthe is a man-mountain, prone to going on the occasional entertaining rampaging run, but even more prone to errors and frankly, at the moment, looks nothing like good enough for League 2. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Luke James has run around a lot in the limited chances he has been given, created very little and failed to score. Again, he does not look League 2 standard. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

I could go on...

I would argue that this season, Charlie Cooper has made a more positive impact on the pitch than any of the players above. So I simply cannot understand the level of vitriol constantly directed at him. And I never have and never will understand why 'fans' shout abuse at players from the stands during games - at the very least, it distracts them and probably demotivates them, which surely no true fan wants? Before we even start on the other things that are wrong about it...

And all these statistics being quoted about our results when Charlie is in the team and not in the team - like he is the only player on the pitch in these games who is influencing anything? Does anyone remember the famous statistic about Spurs failing to register a win in the first 24 games in which Gareth Bale started? And he turned out okay in the end, didn't he...?

:evil:
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby The Cumbrian » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:56 am

Birmingham sold Paul Pescidolido to Burnley once he was in a relationship with Karen Bradey
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby Too occasional fan » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:02 pm

SkunkMan wrote:Sadly I fear that for young Charlie, because his Dad is the boss, he will always be damned whatever he does...it will never be 'good enough'.


That’s the point though. Although he would be good enough, if he was better then anyone else should be in the position.

If, as KS says, a manager would be expected to choose the best team he thinks he can, should that manager also look at results gained by various team selections? Charlie Cooper may well excel at what he is asked to do, but that does not appear to be getting results.

Doesn’t excuse the abuse.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby voodoobluesman » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:11 pm

I hate to see players shouted at and berated for what some consider playing badly, in my opinion we go to support our team. Any criticism should be on here, where it should be welcomed.

Having said that on this occasion, just after Charlie Cooper kicked a player, who was already down in the stomach, out of what looked like sheer spite, whilst I didn't boo myself, felt that this was understandable in this case.

Violence is wrong, plain wrong, whether on or off the pitch, and should not be tolerated.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby Kentstripe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:20 pm

voodoobluesman wrote:I hate to see players shouted at and berated for what some consider playing badly, in my opinion we go to support our team. Any criticism should be on here, where it should be welcomed.

Having said that on this occasion, just after Charlie Cooper kicked a player, who was already down in the stomach, out of what looked like sheer spite, whilst I didn't boo myself, felt that this was understandable in this case.

Violence is wrong, plain wrong, whether on or off the pitch, and should not be tolerated.


That's deflecting from the main point though, everyone could hear and see he'd been getting dog's abuse long before that, no surprise he eventually snapped.

And some even celebrated the awful tackle on him at Coventry, which was much worse then his admittedly petulant stamp on the Wycombe's players backside, which did no damage whatsoever.

He deserved criticism for his red v Wycombe, but he'd been taking so much before that anyway there was hardly any point. We've had players commit far worse offences and still be clapped off.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby montyc » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:21 pm

Too occasional fan wrote:
SkunkMan wrote:Sadly I fear that for young Charlie, because his Dad is the boss, he will always be damned whatever he does...it will never be 'good enough'.


That’s the point though. Although he would be good enough, if he was better then anyone else should be in the position.

If, as KS says, a manager would be expected to choose the best team he thinks he can, should that manager also look at results gained by various team selections? Charlie Cooper may well excel at what he is asked to do, but that does not appear to be getting results.

Doesn’t excuse the abuse.


Have to agree with you TOF, football is, and always will be a result driven game, who's fault it is with young Charlie having this rather poor record has to be down to MC, maybe a change of scenery for the lad might not be a bad idea.
Going out on loan, letting the vengeance on here die down a bit wouldn't be a bad thing, he's not solely to blame for the teams run of poor result's, after all it's team game. I'm sure once the team is safely set in mid-table all will be well again.
Keep smiling Charlie and keep your anger under control. :)
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby Oggys right boot » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:51 pm

SkunkMan wrote:It saddens me to see a thread like this. Again...

I accept that this is a forum and people are entitled to their opinions, but we have had many players this season who have not looked up to scratch, yet they seemingly do not get singled out for criticism in this way. Sadly I fear that for young Charlie, because his Dad is the boss, he will always be damned whatever he does...it will never be 'good enough'.

Shamir Mullings danced around the pitch at Wembley, made himself a bit of a cult figure, but has failed to deliver anything on the pitch. Now he is departing, shrouded in controversy. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Manny Monthe is a man-mountain, prone to going on the occasional entertaining rampaging run, but even more prone to errors and frankly, at the moment, looks nothing like good enough for League 2. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Luke James has run around a lot in the limited chances he has been given, created very little and failed to score. Again, he does not look League 2 standard. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

I could go on...

I would argue that this season, Charlie Cooper has made a more positive impact on the pitch than any of the players above. So I simply cannot understand the level of vitriol constantly directed at him. And I never have and never will understand why 'fans' shout abuse at players from the stands during games - at the very least, it distracts them and probably demotivates them, which surely no true fan wants? Before we even start on the other things that are wrong about it...

And all these statistics being quoted about our results when Charlie is in the team and not in the team - like he is the only player on the pitch in these games who is influencing anything? Does anyone remember the famous statistic about Spurs failing to register a win in the first 24 games in which Gareth Bale started? And he turned out okay in the end, didn't he...?

:evil:



I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here but your 3 examples of manny, mullings and James have something different to Charlie cooper. They get dropped regularly if they perform badly. (If they make it in to the first team at all). Charlie doesn’t. Despite our best results coming without him - he walks straight back in to the team. I think as a player he’s an alright sub but that’s it - if everyone’s fit it should be osbourne, drissa and KMB / Brown. Charlie shouldn’t be walking in to the side on his performances and results this season. That’s why people are annoyed and threads like this exist.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby voodoobluesman » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:06 pm

Kentstripe wrote:
voodoobluesman wrote:I hate to see players shouted at and berated for what some consider playing badly, in my opinion we go to support our team. Any criticism should be on here, where it should be welcomed.

Having said that on this occasion, just after Charlie Cooper kicked a player, who was already down in the stomach, out of what looked like sheer spite, whilst I didn't boo myself, felt that this was understandable in this case.

Violence is wrong, plain wrong, whether on or off the pitch, and should not be tolerated.


That's deflecting from the main point though, everyone could hear and see he'd been getting dog's abuse long before that, no surprise he eventually snapped.

And some even celebrated the awful tackle on him at Coventry, which was much worse then his admittedly petulant stamp on the Wycombe's players backside, which did no damage whatsoever.

He deserved criticism for his red v Wycombe, but he'd been taking so much before that anyway there was hardly any point. We've had players commit far worse offences and still be clapped off.


Agreed, the other criticism is a disgrace.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby SkunkMan » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:09 pm

Oggys right boot wrote:
SkunkMan wrote:It saddens me to see a thread like this. Again...

I accept that this is a forum and people are entitled to their opinions, but we have had many players this season who have not looked up to scratch, yet they seemingly do not get singled out for criticism in this way. Sadly I fear that for young Charlie, because his Dad is the boss, he will always be damned whatever he does...it will never be 'good enough'.

Shamir Mullings danced around the pitch at Wembley, made himself a bit of a cult figure, but has failed to deliver anything on the pitch. Now he is departing, shrouded in controversy. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Manny Monthe is a man-mountain, prone to going on the occasional entertaining rampaging run, but even more prone to errors and frankly, at the moment, looks nothing like good enough for League 2. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Luke James has run around a lot in the limited chances he has been given, created very little and failed to score. Again, he does not look League 2 standard. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

I could go on...

I would argue that this season, Charlie Cooper has made a more positive impact on the pitch than any of the players above. So I simply cannot understand the level of vitriol constantly directed at him. And I never have and never will understand why 'fans' shout abuse at players from the stands during games - at the very least, it distracts them and probably demotivates them, which surely no true fan wants? Before we even start on the other things that are wrong about it...

And all these statistics being quoted about our results when Charlie is in the team and not in the team - like he is the only player on the pitch in these games who is influencing anything? Does anyone remember the famous statistic about Spurs failing to register a win in the first 24 games in which Gareth Bale started? And he turned out okay in the end, didn't he...?

:evil:



I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here but your 3 examples of manny, mullings and James have something different to Charlie cooper. They get dropped regularly if they perform badly. (If they make it in to the first team at all). Charlie doesn’t. Despite our best results coming without him - he walks straight back in to the team. I think as a player he’s an alright sub but that’s it - if everyone’s fit it should be osbourne, drissa and KMB / Brown. Charlie shouldn’t be walking in to the side on his performances and results this season. That’s why people are annoyed and threads like this exist.


Or - do they get dropped because we have other options in their positions, where as we haven't had many in central midfield? When Noble left us in the lurch, Ossie had yet to arrive and Drissa was a bit in and out, we were desperately short on central midfield players with any experience. Has it occurred to you that Charlie was the only option then, regardless of whether you or I consider him good enough or not? Perhaps he couldn't be dropped simply because we had no other option other than playing inexperienced teenagers?

I don't think Charlie has been 'walking in to the side on his performances' and the level and effectiveness of performances are, to an extent, subjective. You say that 'if everyone’s fit it should be osbourne, drissa and KMB / Brown' but that is of course your opinion, not fact.

It will be interesting to see over the next few weeks, with (in theory) Ossie, Drissa, Dayle, Reece, KMB and Lee Collins all potentially available as midfield picks, whether Charlie still starts every week. I still do not subscribe to the view that MC would pick Charlie if he genuinely thought he had a better player available in that position - both because his job depends on us winning games and also that he would surely not want to expose his son to abuse and claims of nepotism? The latter of which, unfortunately, has happened regardless.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby Oggys right boot » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:50 pm

SkunkMan wrote:
Oggys right boot wrote:
SkunkMan wrote:It saddens me to see a thread like this. Again...

I accept that this is a forum and people are entitled to their opinions, but we have had many players this season who have not looked up to scratch, yet they seemingly do not get singled out for criticism in this way. Sadly I fear that for young Charlie, because his Dad is the boss, he will always be damned whatever he does...it will never be 'good enough'.

Shamir Mullings danced around the pitch at Wembley, made himself a bit of a cult figure, but has failed to deliver anything on the pitch. Now he is departing, shrouded in controversy. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Manny Monthe is a man-mountain, prone to going on the occasional entertaining rampaging run, but even more prone to errors and frankly, at the moment, looks nothing like good enough for League 2. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Luke James has run around a lot in the limited chances he has been given, created very little and failed to score. Again, he does not look League 2 standard. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

I could go on...

I would argue that this season, Charlie Cooper has made a more positive impact on the pitch than any of the players above. So I simply cannot understand the level of vitriol constantly directed at him. And I never have and never will understand why 'fans' shout abuse at players from the stands during games - at the very least, it distracts them and probably demotivates them, which surely no true fan wants? Before we even start on the other things that are wrong about it...

And all these statistics being quoted about our results when Charlie is in the team and not in the team - like he is the only player on the pitch in these games who is influencing anything? Does anyone remember the famous statistic about Spurs failing to register a win in the first 24 games in which Gareth Bale started? And he turned out okay in the end, didn't he...?

:evil:



I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here but your 3 examples of manny, mullings and James have something different to Charlie cooper. They get dropped regularly if they perform badly. (If they make it in to the first team at all). Charlie doesn’t. Despite our best results coming without him - he walks straight back in to the team. I think as a player he’s an alright sub but that’s it - if everyone’s fit it should be osbourne, drissa and KMB / Brown. Charlie shouldn’t be walking in to the side on his performances and results this season. That’s why people are annoyed and threads like this exist.


Or - do they get dropped because we have other options in their positions, where as we haven't had many in central midfield? When Noble left us in the lurch, Ossie had yet to arrive and Drissa was a bit in and out, we were desperately short on central midfield players with any experience. Has it occurred to you that Charlie was the only option then, regardless of whether you or I consider him good enough or not? Perhaps he couldn't be dropped simply because we had no other option other than playing inexperienced teenagers?

I don't think Charlie has been 'walking in to the side on his performances' and the level and effectiveness of performances are, to an extent, subjective. You say that 'if everyone’s fit it should be osbourne, drissa and KMB / Brown' but that is of course your opinion, not fact.

It will be interesting to see over the next few weeks, with (in theory) Ossie, Drissa, Dayle, Reece, KMB and Lee Collins all potentially available as midfield picks, whether Charlie still starts every week. I still do not subscribe to the view that MC would pick Charlie if he genuinely thought he had a better player available in that position - both because his job depends on us winning games and also that he would surely not want to expose his son to abuse and claims of nepotism? The latter of which, unfortunately, has happened regardless.


‘Regardless’ ? He has played him every occasion he could this season?!

Well Charlie wasn’t really dropped last season when the teams and his form dropped and if it’s a case of there’s no one else which you seem to be implying...that should have been addressed in the summer...or now. You’re right it’s a game of opinions. What is fact - are the results with and without him in the team. I will always support whoever is playing for us at the ground, including Charlie, and I’m not one who gets on his back. However I am entitled to think we are a much better team without him!
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby SkunkMan » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:35 pm

Oggys right boot wrote:
SkunkMan wrote:
Oggys right boot wrote:
SkunkMan wrote:It saddens me to see a thread like this. Again...

I accept that this is a forum and people are entitled to their opinions, but we have had many players this season who have not looked up to scratch, yet they seemingly do not get singled out for criticism in this way. Sadly I fear that for young Charlie, because his Dad is the boss, he will always be damned whatever he does...it will never be 'good enough'.

Shamir Mullings danced around the pitch at Wembley, made himself a bit of a cult figure, but has failed to deliver anything on the pitch. Now he is departing, shrouded in controversy. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Manny Monthe is a man-mountain, prone to going on the occasional entertaining rampaging run, but even more prone to errors and frankly, at the moment, looks nothing like good enough for League 2. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

Luke James has run around a lot in the limited chances he has been given, created very little and failed to score. Again, he does not look League 2 standard. But he does not get singled out for this level of criticism.

I could go on...

I would argue that this season, Charlie Cooper has made a more positive impact on the pitch than any of the players above. So I simply cannot understand the level of vitriol constantly directed at him. And I never have and never will understand why 'fans' shout abuse at players from the stands during games - at the very least, it distracts them and probably demotivates them, which surely no true fan wants? Before we even start on the other things that are wrong about it...

And all these statistics being quoted about our results when Charlie is in the team and not in the team - like he is the only player on the pitch in these games who is influencing anything? Does anyone remember the famous statistic about Spurs failing to register a win in the first 24 games in which Gareth Bale started? And he turned out okay in the end, didn't he...?

:evil:



I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here but your 3 examples of manny, mullings and James have something different to Charlie cooper. They get dropped regularly if they perform badly. (If they make it in to the first team at all). Charlie doesn’t. Despite our best results coming without him - he walks straight back in to the team. I think as a player he’s an alright sub but that’s it - if everyone’s fit it should be osbourne, drissa and KMB / Brown. Charlie shouldn’t be walking in to the side on his performances and results this season. That’s why people are annoyed and threads like this exist.


Or - do they get dropped because we have other options in their positions, where as we haven't had many in central midfield? When Noble left us in the lurch, Ossie had yet to arrive and Drissa was a bit in and out, we were desperately short on central midfield players with any experience. Has it occurred to you that Charlie was the only option then, regardless of whether you or I consider him good enough or not? Perhaps he couldn't be dropped simply because we had no other option other than playing inexperienced teenagers?

I don't think Charlie has been 'walking in to the side on his performances' and the level and effectiveness of performances are, to an extent, subjective. You say that 'if everyone’s fit it should be osbourne, drissa and KMB / Brown' but that is of course your opinion, not fact.

It will be interesting to see over the next few weeks, with (in theory) Ossie, Drissa, Dayle, Reece, KMB and Lee Collins all potentially available as midfield picks, whether Charlie still starts every week. I still do not subscribe to the view that MC would pick Charlie if he genuinely thought he had a better player available in that position - both because his job depends on us winning games and also that he would surely not want to expose his son to abuse and claims of nepotism? The latter of which, unfortunately, has happened regardless.


‘Regardless’ ? He has played him every occasion he could this season?!

Well Charlie wasn’t really dropped last season when the teams and his form dropped and if it’s a case of there’s no one else which you seem to be implying...that should have been addressed in the summer...or now. You’re right it’s a game of opinions. What is fact - are the results with and without him in the team. I will always support whoever is playing for us at the ground, including Charlie, and I’m not one who gets on his back. However I am entitled to think we are a much better team without him!


Of course you are! And you may well be right, certainly based on the squad of players we currently have available. I am not convinced that this has been the case all season though.

But...statistics showing how many points we have got in games which he has and hasn't played are not facts that prove he is the reason or the 'weak link' which caused us to drop points. I have no doubt there were other players on the field in all of those games who influenced the result!
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby GETCARTER » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:56 pm

You cannot argue with the statistics re: his contributions to our points totals when he plays, etc., that is what the new Sports Scienctists work on, and relay to the manager, if he is listening. You cannot argue with the facts. It clearly shows that he is not contributing to our winning run.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby Referee » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:46 am

With regards to statistics we have reviewed this thread and we found the following:

6 posts are supportive of Charlie
17 are neutral or stray from Charlie to talk about other players or topics
10 are critical of Charlie, but none of these are deemed abusive.

We are reinstating it. Please remember that criticism of people's actions is fine, direct personal abuse is not.

Whilst results and play can be frustrating the team and the players are human and do not set out to play badly. They hurt too.

Thank you.
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Re: Charlie Cooper

Postby man_of_kent » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:00 pm

I know others have a different view but having looked at many football forums over the years, the fgr one is becoming a class above the rest in the way it is managed and to be honest the general quality of the postings.

Well done all and that's includes the general principles of the administration.!
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