Brexit

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Re: Brexit

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:51 pm

Because it debases the rule of democracy of a 1 time vote and Dave's gamble of 'No ifs or Buts ... IN or OUT!"

There again, our parliament has introduced more ifs, buts, maybes, what ifs, perhapses and so on, in the ensuing 2 and a half years.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:08 pm

Too occasional fan wrote:. Today there is the internet, instant communication, computers and so on.

It’s a different world out there.

That is one of the best reasons to be OUT.
An independent UK can far quicker manoeuvre than the cumbersome 27 nation EU.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:34 pm

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Re: Brexit

Postby Stackz123 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:24 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:It will be the same for this young generation who once they have joined the working [real] world would vote OUT if there was another Referendum.


Well I couldn't disagree more. I'm part of this 'young generation' and have been in the working world for six years and I can tell you for a fact that I would vote to remain again. There is no evidence at all that we'll recover in the long run and a lot of evidence that in the short term it's going to be a sharp decline for the economy.

Would you sack a manager that's been mid-table, you don't agree with everything but he's not doing a bad job, for a manager that will get you relegated but 'might' get you back up and then who knows from there?

It's two years later and I still feel massively let down by the older generation and I'm very much not alone in this.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:45 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
BTW I am offended by your constant remarks that Brexiteers are a racist which has been shown as completely untrue. You seem to have a hang-up about racialism.
But you excelled yourself with your analogy to paedophilia and Jimmy Saville and Brexit,
That is utterly disgraceful and weakens your case. Sensible undeciders will want to distance themselves from those.


Well, if the flat cap fits....

Properly laughed at the use of the word ‘racialism’ by the way. Thought that had died out with the dinosaurs... oh hang on...
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:09 pm

Stackz123 wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:It will be the same for this young generation who once they have joined the working [real] world would vote OUT if there was another Referendum.


Well I couldn't disagree more. I'm part of this 'young generation' and have been in the working world for six years and I can tell you for a fact that I would vote to remain again. There is no evidence at all that we'll recover in the long run and a lot of evidence that in the short term it's going to be a sharp decline for the economy.

Would you sack a manager that's been mid-table, you don't agree with everything but he's not doing a bad job, for a manager that will get you relegated but 'might' get you back up and then who knows from there?

It's two years later and I still feel massively let down by the older generation and I'm very much not alone in this.


I had already covered subject that younger people are more likely to change their minds when I said that my generation, including me, voted to remain in 1970s referendum.
But with wisdom that comes with age, our generation generally voted for Brexit.
And, in my case, I voted out to secure the best future of my seven grand-children. I suspect many older voters did exactly same for their own kith and kin.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Timb » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:14 pm

What exactly are you expecting to be better after Brexit? and please don't just quote stats from a web site. Put some thought into it.

Treehugger your comments are out of order. Dickhead springs to mind.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how far fetched they are.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:30 pm

TreeHugger wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:
BTW I am offended by your constant remarks that Brexiteers are a racist which has been shown as completely untrue. You seem to have a hang-up about racialism.
But you excelled yourself with your analogy to paedophilia and Jimmy Saville and Brexit,
That is utterly disgraceful and weakens your case. Sensible undeciders will want to distance themselves from those.


Well, if the flat cap fits....

Properly laughed at the use of the word ‘racialism’ by the way. Thought that had died out with the dinosaurs... oh hang on...

Do please stop digging bigger holes for yourself.
Okay I made a spelling mistake but Brexit was not based on a racist agenda which you have implied on more than one occasion.
I voted OUT purely because I am convinced UK will be economically better out than in. And which I covered earlier in this thread.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:34 pm

Timb wrote:What exactly are you expecting to be better after Brexit? and please don't just quote stats from a web site. Put some thought into it.

Treehugger your comments are out of order. Dickhead springs to mind.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how far fetched they are.


Which of my comments have offended you so much Timb? You may not agree with my opinions but I’m entitled to have them. Just as you’re entitled to be offended by them. But I’m curious to know what irked you.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:37 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
TreeHugger wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:
BTW I am offended by your constant remarks that Brexiteers are a racist which has been shown as completely untrue. You seem to have a hang-up about racialism.
But you excelled yourself with your analogy to paedophilia and Jimmy Saville and Brexit,
That is utterly disgraceful and weakens your case. Sensible undeciders will want to distance themselves from those.


Well, if the flat cap fits....

Properly laughed at the use of the word ‘racialism’ by the way. Thought that had died out with the dinosaurs... oh hang on...

Do please stop digging bigger holes for yourself.
Okay I made a spelling mistake but Brexit was not based on a racist agenda which you have implied on more than one occasion.
I voted OUT purely because I am convinced UK will be economically better out than in. And which I covered earlier in this thread.


It’s fine for you to claim that the Brexit vote didn’t result from a racist agenda. I happen to believe that it was. Neither of us can prove it either way. It’s just opinion. But some of your comments lean towards xenophobia. Perhaps you don’t realise you’re doing it.
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Re: Brexit

Postby andymac26 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:05 pm

Titanic came up somewhere earlier. On that note;
'attempting to renegoniate the backstop,' = 'rearranging the deckchairs....'
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:10 pm

andymac26 wrote:Titanic came up somewhere earlier. On that note;
'attempting to renegoniate the backstop,' = 'rearranging the deckchairs....'


Good one: inaccurate but nevertheless made me smile. :lol:
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Re: Brexit

Postby cookiemonster » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:15 pm

Greeners wrote:Hi
Pitchfork wrote:Looking to the medium and long term, the world our children will live in - I have hardly met anyone under the age of 30 who would prefer to live outside the EU in the future. They really do feel let down by our generation.


I have been anti Common Market, anti EC and anti Eu consistently since it was first proposed that we join back in the 50s-60s.
If those under 30's really want to live in the EU then I suggest they do just that, there are Boats and Trains and Planes which will take them there.


Yes this seems like an excellent way to reconcile a bitterly divided society: if you don't like the referendum result then sod off to the EU.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Silver Surfer » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:38 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:I voted OUT purely because I am convinced UK will be economically better out than in. And which I covered earlier in this thread.


I didn't know you were an expert in economics. So how is the UK going to be better off?????
No animals were harmed during the creation of this message, but some electrons became agitated.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Greeners » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:41 am

Hi
cookiemonster wrote:Yes this seems like an excellent way to reconcile a bitterly divided society: if you don't like the referendum result then sod off to the EU.


Compromise can never work if you have 2 disparate groups each wanting diametrically opposed things, compromise will only succeed in making everybody dissatisfied.
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Re: Brexit

Postby cookiemonster » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:20 am

Greeners wrote:Hi
cookiemonster wrote:Yes this seems like an excellent way to reconcile a bitterly divided society: if you don't like the referendum result then sod off to the EU.


Compromise can never work if you have 2 disparate groups each wanting diametrically opposed things, compromise will only succeed in making everybody dissatisfied.


Forgive me Greeners but that is to abandon hope that we can resolve any serious disagreement or conflict between humans anywhere about anything. A hopeless argument indeed.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:34 am

Greeners wrote:Hi
cookiemonster wrote:Yes this seems like an excellent way to reconcile a bitterly divided society: if you don't like the referendum result then sod off to the EU.


Compromise can never work if you have 2 disparate groups each wanting diametrically opposed things, compromise will only succeed in making everybody dissatisfied.


Indeed. Hence the normal way of doing things - electing 650 people (and having 800 others in a different house) to work out how to get ways of dealing with diametrically opposed things. The public don’t have all the facts, even if they think they do.

Unfortunately David Cameron’s appalling abdication of responsibility in the face of right-wing extremists has broken this country, whether there is Brexit or not. We point fingers at other countries and shout “corruption!” and yet that has demonstrably happened here outside the Mother of Parliaments. Remember, if the referendum had not been advisory, people would have been convicted of electoral crimes.

As for the racism element of the referendum, I cite two bits of propaganda that I saw from Leave campaign, leading up to the referendum. Nigel Farage’s poster (mirroring Labour isn’t working - designed to press the nostalgic outrage buttons of a certain age group) and the “Your Street is most likely to vote Leave” postcard, which implied that the Turks were coming here, all those funny foreign people about to flood into our country. It lied by making some countries bigger than others, by saying that Turkey was going to join the EU and by saying millions of people were waiting to come here, oh and by saying that my street was most likely to vote Leave: it wasn’t. Lies with a racist undertone. Very nasty. And utterly indefensible, whatever your views on the good and bad of the EU.

Those that hold the referendum up, saying “get over it, you lost” should bear this in mind. It’s like Henri in the World Cup match versus Ireland. Except slightly more serious.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:30 am

Silver Surfer wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:I voted OUT purely because I am convinced UK will be economically better out than in. And which I covered earlier in this thread.


I didn't know you were an expert in economics. So how is the UK going to be better off?????


I refer you to my post on top of page 5 of this thread [dated 1 March @ 4.43pm] where I have comprehensibly answered what you ask.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:45 am

The Old TomCat wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:I voted OUT purely because I am convinced UK will be economically better out than in. And which I covered earlier in this thread.


I didn't know you were an expert in economics. So how is the UK going to be better off?????


I refer you to my post on top of page 5 of this thread [dated 1 March @ 4.43pm] where I have comprehensibly answered what you ask.


For the benefit of others, this appears to be the source for OTC's post:

https://www.capitalandconflict.com/brex ... -leave-eu/

Here are a couple of comments about them:

They are basically an opinion-sheet that likes to spread doom, gloom and a few share tips (mostly strange, high risk, or expensive).
In my humble opinion, they are a waste of time.


Capital and Conflict are the Moneyweek people, I see..... Tree-shakers.


Capital & Conflict are part of the large Money Week publishing company, along with many more similar sites (Southbank Investment Research Ltd).also headed by the interesting Bill Bonner empire


So, it is fair to say, they are not merely commentators, they have an agenda. Probably a bit like Jacob Rees-Mogg or Lord Lawson, who both stand to gain, massively, from Brexit. Like many of the Leave supporters, personal gain trumps the effect on the country.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:56 am

This Brexit thread and Poetry thread is becoming silly.
The country voted OUT whether we agree or disagree.
End of story.

BTW Foggy it was me who was banned from forum for a fortnight after Brexit accused of being racist.
It was nothing of the sort. All I did was crib reports from the regional papers that at the time I bought every day.
I didn't know it was racist to write about the Scots or Irish or Welsh!
[The moderator was obviously a very blind biased and stupid bad loser who voted Remain]
Nevertheless two weeks later I posted exact same words and they are still on site.

I'm done. Tuesday will be decision day and by end of month UK will once again be a free and happy nation. [Unless of course the MPs foul it up]
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