Brexit

For chat about all other topics

Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:18 pm

OK. I don't care which way you voted. The Referendum was a sham.

There you go.
The gimlet of the forum.
User avatar
Too occasional fan
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 2793
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:04 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby paulK » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:33 pm

Too occasional fan wrote:OK. I don't care which way you voted. The Referendum was a sham.

There you go.


Not sure I agree with the sham aspect but it was definitely a mistake to even think of holding one - but that"s politics for you.

Good or bad, we should leave decisions like this (EU in or out) to the MPs and only involve the public vote on election issues. Just MHO.
User avatar
paulK
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1611
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:50 pm
Location: Sadly Broke

Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:14 pm

Agreed - that is why we have representatives.

For David Cameron to gamble with the country because of a few of the nastiest people in the nasty party makes him the 2nd worst PM ever. The first being our current one.
The gimlet of the forum.
User avatar
Too occasional fan
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 2793
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:04 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby Kentstripe » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:32 pm

I agree with OTC that there is a good chance that May will manage to force her deal through at a third or fourth attempt.

I hope she doesn't though, as whichever side you are on there is no good enough reason to vote to accept a deal that so many feel is a bad one for this country, just for the sake of "getting on with it".

This deal will dictate the country's future for decades to come, it MUST be a good one irrespective of how long it takes to negotiate.
User avatar
Kentstripe
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:08 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby Silver Surfer » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:11 pm

Kentstripe wrote:I agree with OTC that there is a good chance that May will manage to force her deal through at a third or fourth attempt.


Can someone explain what a "meaningful vote" is, and what should happen if a proposal which was the subject of a "meaningful vote" was defeated by the largest majority in history?
No animals were harmed during the creation of this message, but some electrons became agitated.
User avatar
Silver Surfer
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:10 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:25 pm

Silver Surfer wrote:
Can someone explain what a "meaningful vote" is, and ...


Something like"affordable houses" I think S/S. ;)
Quo tendimus?

Nos venit!
User avatar
Fartvs Antiqvvs
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 4912
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:29 pm

I think you have to consider who is using the phrase.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 1-amp.html

Meanwhile the gammon ball run had a spot of bother in Middlesborough today.
The gimlet of the forum.
User avatar
Too occasional fan
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 2793
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:04 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:51 pm

dursleydog wrote:
The trouble with Mays deal is it still doesn’t answer the Northern Ireland problem, as will any version of leaving that scraps freedom of movement.

Speaking from the remain side, I could happily compromise for a leave deal that was a.) legally achieved and b.) plausible, even if it meant risking some short term economic disruption. Something along the lines of a Norway or Swiss style agreement. Given this was actually what the Leave campaign were suggesting a ‘Leave’ vote would look like, this is hardly unreasonable.

However, as the referendum was not legal, for all the reasons I’ve detailed before, that really changes my perspective on it. Add into that the issues with Mays deal as she’s pushed it further into the realms of fantasy in order to stop the hard brexiteers jump from the Tory ship altogether, and I just do not see how her deal would do anything to benefit the country.

Plus, for her to run the exact same deal through parliament 3 or 4 times to attempt to get the result she wants while claiming a 2nd referendum would be undemocratic is hypocrisy in the extreme. Democracy is inherently run on people being able to change their minds and express that at the ballot box.


The Referendum has been accepted as lawful.

Do remember that Brexit splits both major parties. Labour in London voted overwhelmingly for Remain while Labour in the north voted Leave.
Both major political parties have a problem.
A further Referendum would seriously inflame the issue and is not one that is seriously considered by party leaders.
A General Election would not solve the problem either when both Tory & Labour have deep divisions within their own party.
Basically it is for our current elected MPs to resolve the Brexit conundrum and for which I offer my full support.

BTW May's plan is not fantasy. It has been agreed with the other 27 nations of the EU.
User avatar
The Old TomCat
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 3266
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:06 pm
Location: Stroud

Re: Brexit

Postby king giraffe III » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:16 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
dursleydog wrote:
The trouble with Mays deal is it still doesn’t answer the Northern Ireland problem, as will any version of leaving that scraps freedom of movement.

Speaking from the remain side, I could happily compromise for a leave deal that was a.) legally achieved and b.) plausible, even if it meant risking some short term economic disruption. Something along the lines of a Norway or Swiss style agreement. Given this was actually what the Leave campaign were suggesting a ‘Leave’ vote would look like, this is hardly unreasonable.

However, as the referendum was not legal, for all the reasons I’ve detailed before, that really changes my perspective on it. Add into that the issues with Mays deal as she’s pushed it further into the realms of fantasy in order to stop the hard brexiteers jump from the Tory ship altogether, and I just do not see how her deal would do anything to benefit the country.

Plus, for her to run the exact same deal through parliament 3 or 4 times to attempt to get the result she wants while claiming a 2nd referendum would be undemocratic is hypocrisy in the extreme. Democracy is inherently run on people being able to change their minds and express that at the ballot box.


The Referendum has been accepted as lawful.

Do remember that Brexit splits both major parties. Labour in London voted overwhelmingly for Remain while Labour in the north voted Leave.
Both major political parties have a problem.
A further Referendum would seriously inflame the issue and is not one that is seriously considered by party leaders.
A General Election would not solve the problem either when both Tory & Labour have deep divisions within their own party.
Basically it is for our current elected MPs to resolve the Brexit conundrum and for which I offer my full support.

BTW May's plan is not fantasy. It has been agreed with the other 27 nations of the EU.


She's gonna get her deal through this week. It's amazing how a billion or so will almost certainly buy the votes of Orange zealots. Others will be thinking about their seats at the next election. They're more interested in their own jobs than thinking about it sensibly and denying the pitchfork waving, xenophobic Little Englanders and the extreme right what they want. It's going to embolden an awful lot of people with very prejudicial views.

An election would only help the Tories. Labour is so inept under Corbyn it defies belief.

What we really need is a legally binding referendum. That hoarse grey woman's deal or remain. That way nobody can talk about advisory this or advisory that.
king giraffe III
 

Re: Brexit

Postby Tomiswalking » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:05 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
dursleydog wrote:
The trouble with Mays deal is it still doesn’t answer the Northern Ireland problem, as will any version of leaving that scraps freedom of movement.

Speaking from the remain side, I could happily compromise for a leave deal that was a.) legally achieved and b.) plausible, even if it meant risking some short term economic disruption. Something along the lines of a Norway or Swiss style agreement. Given this was actually what the Leave campaign were suggesting a ‘Leave’ vote would look like, this is hardly unreasonable.

However, as the referendum was not legal, for all the reasons I’ve detailed before, that really changes my perspective on it. Add into that the issues with Mays deal as she’s pushed it further into the realms of fantasy in order to stop the hard brexiteers jump from the Tory ship altogether, and I just do not see how her deal would do anything to benefit the country.

Plus, for her to run the exact same deal through parliament 3 or 4 times to attempt to get the result she wants while claiming a 2nd referendum would be undemocratic is hypocrisy in the extreme. Democracy is inherently run on people being able to change their minds and express that at the ballot box.


The Referendum has been accepted as lawful.

Do remember that Brexit splits both major parties. Labour in London voted overwhelmingly for Remain while Labour in the north voted Leave.
Both major political parties have a problem.
A further Referendum would seriously inflame the issue and is not one that is seriously considered by party leaders.
A General Election would not solve the problem either when both Tory & Labour have deep divisions within their own party.
Basically it is for our current elected MPs to resolve the Brexit conundrum and for which I offer my full support.

BTW May's plan is not fantasy. It has been agreed with the other 27 nations of the EU.

I'm suspicious of anyone who says they know the right way to sort this out.

Although it's not useful now, after the event, i think that it was a daft question to ask a huge group of people, I feel that the common person should be able to make important choices, but the quality of the question is key.

I think David Cameron should have included more description of the alternative plan within the question, so that we new our direction before we left the status quo. There should have been no leave campaign, it should have been a where next campaign.
User avatar
Tomiswalking
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 11:05 am

Re: Brexit

Postby dursleydog » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:47 am

The Old TomCat wrote:
dursleydog wrote:
The trouble with Mays deal is it still doesn’t answer the Northern Ireland problem, as will any version of leaving that scraps freedom of movement.

Speaking from the remain side, I could happily compromise for a leave deal that was a.) legally achieved and b.) plausible, even if it meant risking some short term economic disruption. Something along the lines of a Norway or Swiss style agreement. Given this was actually what the Leave campaign were suggesting a ‘Leave’ vote would look like, this is hardly unreasonable.

However, as the referendum was not legal, for all the reasons I’ve detailed before, that really changes my perspective on it. Add into that the issues with Mays deal as she’s pushed it further into the realms of fantasy in order to stop the hard brexiteers jump from the Tory ship altogether, and I just do not see how her deal would do anything to benefit the country.

Plus, for her to run the exact same deal through parliament 3 or 4 times to attempt to get the result she wants while claiming a 2nd referendum would be undemocratic is hypocrisy in the extreme. Democracy is inherently run on people being able to change their minds and express that at the ballot box.


The Referendum has been accepted as lawful.

Do remember that Brexit splits both major parties. Labour in London voted overwhelmingly for Remain while Labour in the north voted Leave.
Both major political parties have a problem.
A further Referendum would seriously inflame the issue and is not one that is seriously considered by party leaders.
A General Election would not solve the problem either when both Tory & Labour have deep divisions within their own party.
Basically it is for our current elected MPs to resolve the Brexit conundrum and for which I offer my full support.

BTW May's plan is not fantasy. It has been agreed with the other 27 nations of the EU.


The referendum has categorically not been accepted as lawful by the electoral commission, it’s just they can’t do anything about what was officially an ‘advisory poll’. I feel like I’ve gone through this multiple times already but oh well.

As a Labour member I am painfully aware of the divisions within the party over Brexit. However, it is not Labours responsibility to sort this mess out, although as opposition they of course have a part to play. The issue is already inflamed, Pandora’s box is open, no route offers a complete solution at this point. Hence to bypass the parliamentary mess a legally binding referendum should be held in order to take it out of the politicians hands (in my opinion) as it offers a clear answer one way or another. ‘Leave’ is categorically not a clear answer, as there are so many forms that could take.

The only reason Mays plan got agreed was due to the potentially indefinite backstop on Norther Ireland, which is further political can kicking sadly. It offers no solutions to the Northern Ireland border problem, which the remain side has been trying to point out since long before the referendum is impossible to resolve without freedom of movement, unfortunately with very little success.
User avatar
dursleydog
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:46 pm
Location: Kernow

Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:38 am

Interesting item on the radio news this morning:

The government signed Article 50 into law two years ago stating UK would leave the EU on March 29, 2019.
Businesses have been gearing up for that date and should it be put back, as is possible, the country could lose billions of pounds. [The ferry companies are already threatening to take the UK government to court for £ millions]

That might the catalyst for MPs to concentrate on securing a quick resolution.
And it could go either way:
Hard Brexiteers might agree to May’s plan thru gritted teeth or they may veto everything allowing the clock to run down to March 29 with automatic exit from the EU.

At the moment Leavers are in the majority in Parliament but time is with the Brexiteers.
Depends who blinks first.
User avatar
The Old TomCat
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 3266
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:06 pm
Location: Stroud

Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:48 pm

How have businesses been preparing for Brexit (apart from being very cautious on investment decisions) when it has not been clear at all what kind of Brexit there might be?
The gimlet of the forum.
User avatar
Too occasional fan
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 2793
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:04 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:14 pm

Post yesterday, Guy Fawkes had the right idea. :(
Quo tendimus?

Nos venit!
User avatar
Fartvs Antiqvvs
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 4912
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby paulK » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:32 pm

Fartvs Antiqvvs wrote:Post yesterday, Guy Fawkes had the right idea. :(


:lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
paulK
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1611
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:50 pm
Location: Sadly Broke

Re: What I'm watching on tv today.

Postby Pitchfork » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:58 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:# Only a Remoaner would say that UK has lost respect because of Brexit.


The latest Sky Data poll finds 90% of Brits think the Brexit talks have been a “national humiliation”
User avatar
Pitchfork
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 9308
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:00 pm

Re: What I'm watching on tv today.

Postby Too occasional fan » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Pitchfork wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:# Only a Remoaner would say that UK has lost respect because of Brexit.


The latest Sky Data poll finds 90% of Brits think the Brexit talks have been a “national humiliation”


Yeah, but only 90%? That's not everyone and it means that 100% of the 10% don't think that is the case, so it obviously can't be, if 100% think so.
The gimlet of the forum.
User avatar
Too occasional fan
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 2793
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:04 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby NewForestRover » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:20 pm

All I care about is that organic lettuces from Spain will still be available in the winter.
Always Looking On The Bright Side
User avatar
NewForestRover
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:22 pm
Location: The train to Stroud as often as possible!

Re: Brexit

Postby C F Wilder » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:43 pm

They probably will be. With their massive carbon footprint. Save the planet? Cake and eat it.
C F Wilder
Trainee
Trainee
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:49 pm

Re: Brexit

Postby NewForestRover » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:32 pm

Snails don't know about carbon footprints.
Or understand Brexit.

They just like organic lettuce.
Always Looking On The Bright Side
User avatar
NewForestRover
Top Manager
Top Manager
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:22 pm
Location: The train to Stroud as often as possible!

PreviousNext

Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chrisgump11 and 1 guest

About FGR

We’re a club that looks to the future, but our identity is forged from a rich 128-year history. Founded in 1889, we’re one of the oldest football clubs in the world.

In 2017, we were promoted to the Football League for the first time in our history – which means we can spread our sustainability message to an even bigger audience. FIFA recently described us as the greenest football club in the world. That’s quite an accolade, and it shows how we’ve been able to bring together football and environmental consciousness at the highest levels of the game.

cron