Brexit

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Re: Brexit

Postby king giraffe III » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:19 am

The Old TomCat wrote:
king giraffe III wrote:The BBC is biased in favour of Remain? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Given how many remainers claim the opposite, I think they're doing a pretty good job overall.


The BBC is absolutely biased towards Brexit.
YouGov conducted a poll on BBC Brexit bias. It found that 45% of Leave voters thought the BBC was biased against Brexit, compared to just 13% of Remain voters.
Analysis of the contributions across various BBC programmes raised major issues of imbalance.
Of 59 politicians to appear, 37 were pro-Remain.
With academics and lawyers, 11 supported Remain and none favoured Leave, and with businessmen and financial experts, 19 were Remainers and only six wanted ‘out’.

Another striking imbalance was that, across the board, 41% of the speakers who supported Leave were ‘ordinary’ contributors (i.e. members of the public with no obvious expertise), compared to only 27% of pro-EU guests.
In terms of the number of words spoken, members of the public contributed 34% of the Leave total, compared to only 8% on the Remain side.

Eleven of the 20 ‘ordinary’ speakers who spoke in favour of Brexit were from two locations in Northern England, Thornaby-on-Tees and Wakefield. They were responsible for 80% of the words spoken by ‘ordinary’ Leave supporters.


Whilst the studies mentioned here suggest the opposite... https://theconversation.com/hard-eviden ... -bbc-17028
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:27 am

king giraffe III wrote:Whilst the studies mentioned here suggest the opposite... https://theconversation.com/hard-eviden ... -bbc-17028


KG111,
Please note date of article: August 23, 2013
A lot has changed in the past 6 years.
The BBC is now undoubtedly biased towards Remain.
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Re: Honda

Postby paulK » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:52 pm

andymac26 wrote:
michael wrote:I am sure those who voted to leave are very proud of themselves for taking away another opportunity ,and losing a decade for our children whist the country re-groups .
when there is no healthcare available for the mainly older and xenophobic voters who voted to leave , i trust they will take their suffering in silence


....and I wonder who will be the biggest moaners in the long passport control queues at spanish airports in forthcoming summers.
"This is a disgrace, we're British. I never voted for this." (err, yes you did).


Wife wanted to go to Spain this year. I suggested Malta in the hope of shorter queues ;)
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Re: Brexit

Postby king giraffe III » Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:02 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
king giraffe III wrote:Whilst the studies mentioned here suggest the opposite... https://theconversation.com/hard-eviden ... -bbc-17028


KG111,
Please note date of article: August 23, 2013
A lot has changed in the past 6 years.
The BBC is now undoubtedly biased towards Remain.


Perhaps you should also read the Ofcom judgement that recently found Radio 4 isn't biased against Brexit.

Read this as well...

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-anal ... rexit-bias

If you want pro-Brexit bias I would suggest you follow Laura Kuennesberg on Twitter. You know who she is?
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Re: Brexit

Postby Foggy » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:13 pm

I will not be posting my views about this matter, nor comment on what others have said, however if you want some unbiased coverage on a wide range of subjects then try the following links. They will give you comment and facts that are independent of any political group, those with an agenda or an axe to grind:

https://theconversation.com/uk
https://www.thecanary.co/
https://fullfact.org/
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Re: Brexit

Postby king giraffe III » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:57 pm

Foggy wrote:I will not be posting my views about this matter, nor comment on what others have said, however if you want some unbiased coverage on a wide range of subjects then try the following links. They will give you comment and facts that are independent of any political group, those with an agenda or an axe to grind:

https://theconversation.com/uk
https://www.thecanary.co/
https://fullfact.org/


I would remove The Canary as it admits to its political leaning on its About page. I'm a regular at the other two though.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Foggy » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:44 pm

king giraffe III wrote:
I would remove The Canary as it admits to its political leaning on its About page. I'm a regular at the other two though.


Fair point, I am only an occasional visitor to that one, but all things considered it is probably more honest than many sources of news and comment.
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Re: Brexit

Postby king giraffe III » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:16 pm

Foggy wrote:
king giraffe III wrote:
I would remove The Canary as it admits to its political leaning on its About page. I'm a regular at the other two though.


Fair point, I am only an occasional visitor to that one, but all things considered it is probably more honest than many sources of news and comment.


No worries. I can't read anything by James Wright on there. Only person I dislike more is Martin Robbins who wrote for The Guardian and New Statesman.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Pitchfork » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:02 am

Well this thread is 20 pages long and still going strong...I guess it's a fair reflection of what's going on in parliament, the media and everyday conversations.

Many have switched off completely, I can understand why.

Yet the fact remains whatever decision is taken will affect the country for a long time, perhaps more than one generation. So for the sake of your children and grandchildren, do have a view and most importantly try to be aware of both sides of the argument.

Here is an extract from an article in The Financial Times (I highlighted the sentence in bold)


"It’s grim; but it’s a great learning experience. Has anyone learnt? Has former Brexit secretary David Davis worked out that his plan to leave the EU while retaining “the exact same benefits” as staying in the single market, was a little ambitious? Or that the Germans actually care more about the integrity of the EU than about selling Brits BMWs? Has Michael Gove finally noticed that we did not after all “hold all the cards” the day after we voted to leave? Has anyone worked out that frictionless trade is quite complicated, and that the dreary Brussels machinery does a good job for us?

We shouldn’t count on it. It is easier to blame others. Britain triggered Article 50 without having a clue what we wanted or how we were going to get it. The European Commission, by contrast, knew exactly what it was doing: the diplomats in Brussels are masters of negotiation. After all, they have been doing it for years — for us, and for the rest of the EU. Notice that they take direction from their political masters at the start, consult them as they go along, and return to them at the end. The commission is dealing with sovereign states. Our government might consider doing the same with its sovereign parliament."
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Re: Brexit

Postby Silver Surfer » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:08 am

Excellent article. Those on the Tory right who suggested that we could tell Johnny Foreigner which bits of the EU relationship we wanted, and that they could stuff the rest, have been shown up as naive, arrogant and misguided.
No animals were harmed during the creation of this message, but some electrons became agitated.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:44 pm

Pitchfork wrote:

Britain triggered Article 50 without having a clue what we wanted or how we were going to get it.

The European Commission, by contrast, knew exactly what it was doing: the diplomats in Brussels are masters of negotiation. After all, they have been doing it for years — for us, and for the rest of the EU."


Yes, yes, some truth in that P/F. Other clueless Politicians good with the pen, but not the head:

Mr. Major lured into signing up to the Maastricht treaty to become part of the the EU from what it was previously, followed by David Milliband and Gordon Brown signing off the Lisbon treaty enabling a permanent President of th EU instead of 6 monthly rotations.

And the moral of this story ...

And now, dear little children, who may this story read,
To idle, silly, flattering words, I pray you ne’er give heed;
Unto an evil counselor close heart, and ear, and eye,
And take a lesson from this tale of the Spider and the Fly." ;)
Quo tendimus?

Nos venit!
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Re: Brexit

Postby paulK » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:10 pm

Fair reflection Pitchfork. What gets me tho' is many, including Corbyn, still don't seem to get it.

For all the suggestions as to what May should or shouldn't do (or should or shouldn't have done) the EU are most likely in the position they want to be in and TM has probably got the best deal she can if we are to have a Brexit that means Brexit.

The major sticking points are the trade deal and Irish border. The latter was always likely to be a problem on a leave vote, the former will still need negotiation of the detail after the divorce. If the aim is to leave we should leave now AFAICS.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Tomiswalking » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:30 pm

paulK wrote:Fair reflection Pitchfork. What gets me tho' is many, including Corbyn, still don't seem to get it.

For all the suggestions as to what May should or shouldn't do (or should or shouldn't have done) the EU are most likely in the position they want to be in and TM has probably got the best deal she can if we are to have a Brexit that means Brexit.

The major sticking points are the trade deal and Irish border. The latter was always likely to be a problem on a leave vote, the former will still need negotiation of the detail after the divorce. If the aim is to leave we should leave now AFAICS.



What is a Brexit that means Brexit? And what is Brexit that doesnt mean Brexit?
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:49 pm

Those 17.4m voters - what did they vote for?
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Re: Brexit

Postby paulK » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:06 am

Tomiswalking wrote:
What is a Brexit that means Brexit? And what is Brexit that doesn't mean Brexit?


Coming out of the EU as opposed to staying in it.

If we want to carry on negotiating some sort of trade deal from either a starting point of the current deal or alternatively no deal, we can. Let's just get out and get on with it.

Even Labour can have a go when they next get elected in ;)
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Re: Brexit

Postby paulK » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:07 am

Too occasional fan wrote:Those 17.4m voters - what did they vote for?


To leave the EU, wasn't it?
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Re: Brexit

Postby Tomiswalking » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:37 am

paulK wrote:
Tomiswalking wrote:
What is a Brexit that means Brexit? And what is Brexit that doesn't mean Brexit?


Coming out of the EU as opposed to staying in it.

If we want to carry on negotiating some sort of trade deal from either a starting point of the current deal or alternatively no deal, we can. Let's just get out and get on with it.

Even Labour can have a go when they next get elected in ;)


Oh right, I thought I had missed something.

People voted Brexit for different reasons, people voted to remain for different reasons, now we are planning how move forward together we need to analyse the complexities of what we all want and need. What we seem to have in common is our British government isnt doing this.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:28 am

king giraffe III wrote:The BBC is biased in favour of Remain? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Given how many remainers claim the opposite, I think they're doing a pretty good job overall.



Charles Moore, a columnist for the Telegraph appeared on last night’s BBC Question Time and complained that he was the only panellist to vote Leave out of the five speakers.
He quoted a recent study by the Economic Affairs that found only 36% Leavers have appeared on that programme while there were 60% remainers.
Proof positive that the BBC is unashamedly biased towards Remain.
At the moment the Remainers have the wind in their sails, almost certainly because of the negativity towards Leave by the BBC, the nations main source of political information. That would change if a 2nd Referendum is called. A confirmation for Leave would not be unexpected.

Later in the night [rather in early hours] the by-election result for Newport West was announced.
Labour retained seat with a reduced majority, as did the Tories.
With Brexit in mind most voters would happily say to them ‘a plague on both your houses’ but Britain’s first past the post voting system almost ensures that both main parties will remain in power whatever the final outcome of Brexit.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:38 pm

paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:Those 17.4m voters - what did they vote for?


To leave the EU, wasn't it?


So, what does that mean and how will they get it?

Does it mean Hard Brexit, or stay in Customs Union, or Norway, or...
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:44 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
king giraffe III wrote:The BBC is biased in favour of Remain? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Given how many remainers claim the opposite, I think they're doing a pretty good job overall.



Charles Moore, a columnist for the Telegraph appeared on last night’s BBC Question Time and complained that he was the only panellist to vote Leave out of the five speakers.
He quoted a recent study by the Economic Affairs that found only 36% Leavers have appeared on that programme while there were 60% remainers.
Proof positive that the BBC is unashamedly biased towards Remain.

At the moment the Remainers have the wind in their sails, almost certainly because of the negativity towards Leave by the BBC, the nations main source of political information. That would change if a 2nd Referendum is called. A confirmation for Leave would not be unexpected.

Later in the night [rather in early hours] the by-election result for Newport West was announced.
Labour retained seat with a reduced majority, as did the Tories.
With Brexit in mind most voters would happily say to them ‘a plague on both your houses’ but Britain’s first past the post voting system almost ensures that both main parties will remain in power whatever the final outcome of Brexit.



Sorry, but No.

It is not proof of BBC bias - but it is quite possibly proof that, of the people that are asked to go on Question Time, 60% are remainers. I think they choose people to go on the panel based on their politics and their ability to take part on a panel. It may be that more people capable of doing that are retainers...

Also, if by 'the Economic Affairs' you mean right-wing think tank "The Institute of Economic Affairs" then it is probably not surprising that they found one of their bete-noirs to be biased.
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