Brexit

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Re: Brexit

Postby paulK » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:48 pm

Too occasional fan wrote:
paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:Those 17.4m voters - what did they vote for?


To leave the EU, wasn't it?


So, what does that mean and how will they get it?

Does it mean Hard Brexit, or stay in Customs Union, or Norway, or...


It should mean we leave and whatever will be, will be ;)
My mileage; yours may vary, of course.....
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Re: Brexit

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:21 pm

Cat and mouse game. Who will make the decisive move? :lol:

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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:37 pm

paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:
paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:Those 17.4m voters - what did they vote for?


To leave the EU, wasn't it?


So, what does that mean and how will they get it?

Does it mean Hard Brexit, or stay in Customs Union, or Norway, or...


It should mean we leave and whatever will be, will be ;)



...and is that what people voted for? They were told we'd stay in the Customs Union/Single Market, get £350m for the NHS, etc, blah blah.
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Re: Brexit

Postby paulK » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:03 pm

Too occasional fan wrote:
paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:
paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:Those 17.4m voters - what did they vote for?


To leave the EU, wasn't it?


So, what does that mean and how will they get it?

Does it mean Hard Brexit, or stay in Customs Union, or Norway, or...


It should mean we leave and whatever will be, will be ;)



...and is that what people voted for? They were told we'd stay in the Customs Union/Single Market, get £350m for the NHS, etc, blah blah.


https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

As for the £350m, who knows what the budget will be like if we leave. Ironically, the NHS is going to get that this year even before we've left the EU ;)
My mileage; yours may vary, of course.....
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:57 pm

paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:
paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:
paulK wrote:
To leave the EU, wasn't it?


So, what does that mean and how will they get it?

Does it mean Hard Brexit, or stay in Customs Union, or Norway, or...


It should mean we leave and whatever will be, will be ;)



...and is that what people voted for? They were told we'd stay in the Customs Union/Single Market, get £350m for the NHS, etc, blah blah.


https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

As for the £350m, who knows what the budget will be like if we leave. Ironically, the NHS is going to get that this year even before we've left the EU ;)


That link simply confirms that there was a large amount of confusion over what Leave meant. Not really a good basis for making such a fundamental decision.
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Re: Brexit

Postby paulK » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:24 pm

paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:
To leave the EU, wasn't it?


Too occasional fan wrote:So, what does that mean and how will they get it?

Does it mean Hard Brexit, or stay in Customs Union, or Norway, or...


paulK wrote:It should mean we leave and whatever will be, will be ;)



Too occasional fan wrote:...and is that what people voted for? They were told we'd stay in the Customs Union/Single Market, get £350m for the NHS, etc, blah blah.


paulK wrote:https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

As for the £350m, who knows what the budget will be like if we leave. Ironically, the NHS is going to get that this year even before we've left the EU ;)


Too occasional fan wrote:That link simply confirms that there was a large amount of confusion over what Leave meant. Not really a good basis for making such a fundamental decision.


I'm not sure. Cameron was clear with his message on what Brexit would mean i.e leaving the EU and the single market.

Others seemed to agree, including Leave campaigners, and also gave opinions on what we should do and/or might not be able to do. So even at that point there was no clear indication what people would be voting for if they voted leave other than a trade deal would need to be sorted. That discussion is still going on despite the EU telling us what they will and won't agree to.

If, as is suggested, voters may have been confused (because they didn't understand the various scenarios) then it just strengthens the argument that it should never have been put to the vote. On the other hand, maybe it was too complicated for them, wanted out and hoped the parties would honour their pledges.

It is pretty obvious it wasn't just the electorate who were confused :shock:
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:30 pm

It definite shouldn’t have been put in the way it was.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:22 pm

Too occasional fan wrote:Those 17.4m voters - what did they vote for?


To stop the tidal wave of Johnny Foreigners that Farage et al told them were queueing to get in. And to get rid of the ones that had already come over here to steal their jobs and yet also claim benefits somehow...

Because, you know; two world wars an’ all that.

:roll:
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Re: Brexit

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:46 pm

TreeHugger wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:Those 17.4m voters - what did they vote for?


To stop the tidal wave of Johnny Foreigners that Farage et al told them were queueing to get in. And to get rid of the ones that had already come over here to steal their jobs and yet also claim benefits somehow...

Because, you know; two world wars an’ all that.

:roll:


That is, regrettably, how generally, the remain camp see the 17.4m ... pretty sad reflection of the whole negotiation mess engendering this divide.
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Re: Brexit

Postby king giraffe III » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:09 pm

Fartvs Antiqvvs wrote:
TreeHugger wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:Those 17.4m voters - what did they vote for?


To stop the tidal wave of Johnny Foreigners that Farage et al told them were queueing to get in. And to get rid of the ones that had already come over here to steal their jobs and yet also claim benefits somehow...

Because, you know; two world wars an’ all that.

:roll:


That is, regrettably, how generally, the remain camp see the 17.4m ... pretty sad reflection of the whole negotiation mess engendering this divide.


Those people are seen as this because that is what many of them are. Their image isn't helped by the support they've gained from the UKIP racists, Brexit Party racists and the other far right lunatics who have some distorted vision of an English Jerusalem.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:52 pm

king giraffe III wrote:
Those people are seen as this because that is what many of them are. Their image isn't helped by the support they've gained from the UKIP racists, Brexit Party racists and the other far right lunatics who have some distorted vision of an English Jerusalem.


You and others KG111 must tread careful when posting these remarks.
There are/were many millions who do not fall into that category and will feel offended by what you say.
Offended people often react by reluctantly accepting what is said but will justify and harden their views.
So tread very careful when you post these outrageous and untrue statements. You might win a minor battle but lose the war.
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Re: Brexit

Postby king giraffe III » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:25 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
king giraffe III wrote:
Those people are seen as this because that is what many of them are. Their image isn't helped by the support they've gained from the UKIP racists, Brexit Party racists and the other far right lunatics who have some distorted vision of an English Jerusalem.


You and others KG111 must tread careful when posting these remarks.
There are/were many millions who do not fall into that category and will feel offended by what you say.
Offended people often react by reluctantly accepting what is said but will justify and harden their views.
So tread very careful when you post these outrageous and untrue statements. You might win a minor battle but lose the war.


It is outrageous and untrue to point out that the far right support Brexit? It is outrageous and untrue to point out that many leavers fall into the image widely presented of them - they feel Johnny Foreigner is taking over and taking their jobs? And, sorry, the brexiteer image is tarnished by the likes of Yaxley-Lennon being linked to UKIP, nevermind the rest of the far right.

If you're offended...tough. Perhaps you should ask how numerous European migrants in Britain feel now about their future and the awful racism they have experienced during and since the lead up to the referendum.

It isn't a battle, it isn't a war. It's not an armed conflict. You sound like Mark Francois. What this is about is the economy and a stable future for the younger generation now and generations to come. That may come through some kind of deal or revocation of Article 50.

Let me ask you something... What will you gain from Brexit beyond fulfilment of some hauntological fantasy within the pages of This England magazine?
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:31 pm

king giraffe III wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:
king giraffe III wrote:
If you're offended...tough. Perhaps you should ask how numerous European migrants in Britain feel now about their future and the awful racism they have experienced during and since the lead up to the referendum.

Let me ask you something... What will you gain from Brexit beyond fulfilment of some hauntological fantasy within the pages of This England magazine?


I'm not in the least bit offended because I know you are talking a load of old twaddle.
I'm not offended because I know that you are searching the depths of the gutter to make a point.
I'm not offended by your self-righteous post.
And no I'm not offended by your racist comment even though my grandfather was Welsh and my mother grew up in Brecon.
I'm not offended even though my father was foreign born, my first wife was foreign born, my son is married to a foreign-born woman and they live on the EU mainland with their two children.
I'm not offended even though my sister, now a grandmother, has lived almost all her working life in the USA.
I'm not offended even though I have spent years living abroad in Europe and the Near East.
I'm not offended even though I have happily lodged with an Asian family.

It is you KG111 who is coming across on forum as a pseudo anti-racist zealot whereas the rest of us are happy to live in harmony with our neighbour, no matter what creed, colour or religion they be.

The overwhelming majority of those who voted LEAVE was because UK will be a much better place outside the EU.
Check out my earlier posts for confirmation of that fact.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:34 pm

Ahhh... the old ‘friend argument’:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Friend_argument

I’ve been waiting for that one. :roll:
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:37 pm

OTC: you can claim that you have no racist reasons for wanting to leave. You may even be right. Only you know that.

What you cannot deny, is that by so staunchly defending the leave campaign, you are aligning yourself with racists.

I’m not sure that’s any better. Worse in some ways.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:40 pm

What you also can’t deny, is that the referendum was deeply flawed. In such a circumstance, one would usually remove the flaws and re-run the exercise. The only reason this is unpalatable to Brexiteers is that they know they would lose a second fairer referendum.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:49 pm

TreeHugger wrote:What you also can’t deny, is that the referendum was deeply flawed. In such a circumstance, one would usually remove the flaws and re-run the exercise. The only reason this is unpalatable to Brexiteers is that they know they would lose a second fairer referendum.


The truth of the matter is that it is you TreeHugger who is far more racist than I have ever been or will ever be.
It was you who first brought up the subject – not me.
I voted for economic reasons without thought of any racial issue.
It is YOU who stated Leavers voted OUT because they were racists.
It seems as if you have a guilt complex on subject and are trying to pass your guilt onto others.
Give it a rest. PLEASE
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:58 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
TreeHugger wrote:What you also can’t deny, is that the referendum was deeply flawed. In such a circumstance, one would usually remove the flaws and re-run the exercise. The only reason this is unpalatable to Brexiteers is that they know they would lose a second fairer referendum.


The truth of the matter is that it is you TreeHugger who is far more racist than I have ever been or will ever be.
It was you who first brought up the subject – not me.
I voted for economic reasons without thought of any racial issue.
It is YOU who stated Leavers voted OUT because they were racists.
It seems as if you have a guilt complex on subject and are trying to pass your guilt onto others.
Give it a rest. PLEASE


I’m beginning to think that you don’t really understand what racism is. I’m not sure how you can call me racist for anything that I’ve said on this forum.

And yet it is you OTC, who is demanding that we isolate ourselves as a nation, in order that we don’t subsidise any of our neighbours with our wealth. Our money should be our money, and not given to outsiders who are less well off. Thankfully the next generation understand that we’re all one world, who are far better off together than apart. The fact that you don’t even recognise the undertones of your own arguments worries me more than anything else to be honest. It means that it’s so ingrained that you don’t realise you’re saying the things you do.

And you have the temerity to ‘warn people off’ from airing their own views. That’s a bit Third Reichy isn’t it?
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Re: Brexit

Postby Pitchfork » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:03 am

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Re: Brexit

Postby Silver Surfer » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:27 am

If brexit is such a good idea, why is one of the main fans, Sir James Dyson, moving his business out of Britain?

What ideas do the the 3 stooges Gove, Johnson and Farage, have? None at all. They have retired to the shadows where they can safely snipe at those who are lumbered with sorting out their mess.
No animals were harmed during the creation of this message, but some electrons became agitated.
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