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Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:41 pm
by Too occasional fan
I've put forward just as much as you have. Except I've pointed out that the state of immigration that was used as evidence for the need to Brexit was actually a UK Govt generated state, not an EU one.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:48 pm
by paulK
Too occasional fan wrote:I've put forward just as much as you have. Except I've pointed out that the state of immigration that was used as evidence for the need to Brexit was actually a UK Govt generated state, not an EU one.


Maybe, maybe not, but the EU do not allow for the benefit I stated to be implemented :roll:

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:53 am
by Tomiswalking
Tof makes a good point. Do the EU control migration to britain from non EU countries ? How have our own government been dealing with that over the last 3 years? knowing that the people voted Brexit, in part, to bring migration down, have they done enough?

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:35 pm
by cookiemonster
Tomiswalking wrote:Tof makes a good point. Do the EU control migration to britain from non EU countries ? How have our own government been dealing with that over the last 3 years? knowing that the people voted Brexit, in part, to bring migration down, have they done enough?


They've been doing a wonderful job of wrongly deporting lots of migrants from the Windies who were entitled to be here all along. That is now going to cost you and I and all other tax payers millions in compensation. But it's a small price to pay compared to the political benefits of playing to the right wing gallery.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:26 pm
by Tomiswalking
A terrible job.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:08 pm
by paulK
Tomiswalking wrote:Tof makes a good point. Do the EU control migration to britain from non EU countries ? How have our own government been dealing with that over the last 3 years? knowing that the people voted Brexit, in part, to bring migration down, have they done enough?


Maybe ToF could outline what the steps are thatt we could implement?

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:40 pm
by Tomiswalking
I have no idea how to go about it and I a like to work hard so I am happy amongst migrant workers and i wouldn't really want to reduce the number. It's a shame for the Brexit voters that their concerns arnt being addressed by our current government and the blame is being put on the EU.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:31 pm
by man_of_kent
I suspect if we Brexit then immigration may not actually change that much compared with if we stayed in. The immigration may reduce from EC but will be made up by immigration from rest of the world. Although the rules are tighter we will still as a country be trying to meet the needs of the country.

Does put a smile on my face when some people thought Brexit would mean less 'Johnney foreigner'. In fact it may well result in a far more diverse population as we increase immigration from Africa, Asia and americans.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:04 pm
by Silver Surfer
man_of_kent wrote:I suspect if we Brexit then immigration may not actually change that much compared with if we stayed in. The immigration may reduce from EC but will be made up by immigration from rest of the world. Although the rules are tighter we will still as a country be trying to meet the needs of the country.

Does put a smile on my face when some people thought Brexit would mean less 'Johnney foreigner'. In fact it may well result in a far more diverse population as we increase immigration from Africa, Asia and americans.


I don't know the exact details, but we have been trying to negotiate a trade deal with India and one of the things they want is increased access to Britain for Indian citizens.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:28 pm
by king giraffe III
man_of_kent wrote:I suspect if we Brexit then immigration may not actually change that much compared with if we stayed in. The immigration may reduce from EC but will be made up by immigration from rest of the world. Although the rules are tighter we will still as a country be trying to meet the needs of the country.

Does put a smile on my face when some people thought Brexit would mean less 'Johnney foreigner'. In fact it may well result in a far more diverse population as we increase immigration from Africa, Asia and americans.


Alhamdulillah!

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:06 pm
by michael
Silver Surfer wrote:
man_of_kent wrote:I suspect if we Brexit then immigration may not actually change that much compared with if we stayed in. The immigration may reduce from EC but will be made up by immigration from rest of the world. Although the rules are tighter we will still as a country be trying to meet the needs of the country.

Does put a smile on my face when some people thought Brexit would mean less 'Johnney foreigner'. In fact it may well result in a far more diverse population as we increase immigration from Africa, Asia and americans.


I don't know the exact details, but we have been trying to negotiate a trade deal with India and one of the things they want is increased access to Britain for Indian citizens.



-and quite right to.

despite the public perception, it is very difficult and expensive (its a profit opportunity to the UK government who routinely reject the first application ,so that a second application is made at a further £700 approx before they then start to consider it ) for Indian citizens to get work permits and even travel visas to the UK.
( made relatively easy if you are of chinese ethnic origin )
I would allege that the inner workings and complexities of the immigration office are a complete scandal which in the future will be exposed to the same outcry as the Windrush scandal.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:09 pm
by michael
most will have seen this ,but little doubt where the Chairman sits on this :

https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/ ... ef=mr&lp=1.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:10 am
by Pitchfork

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 pm
by paulK
Pitchfork wrote:Another worthwhile read

https://theconversation.com/brexit-five ... now-115187


Interesting article. It poses the question How did one of the world’s oldest democracies and largest economies end up in this deadlock?

My answer - the world's oldest democracy gave the decision to the population, something I always felt would end in tears, though the analysis in the article does give a further insightful analysis as to why the Brexit outcome shouldn't have come as too much of a shock.

Also, whether it would be wise to let the population vote again in the misguided (IMO) belief that the public are now better informed? I'm really not sure. In some ways, it would make a mockery of the whole process. However, no doubt the outcome of EU elections might give some sentiment as to how the population is feeling.

Despite the vilification of TM in the article, the position as outlined in the referenced article has me even more confused.

1. Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement
Strike your own trade deals? Yes.
Freedom of movement? No.
EU budget contributions? Yes.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? Yes

2. Customs union
Strike your own trade deals? No.
Freedom of movement? No.
EU budget contributions? Yes, but limited.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? Yes.

3. Single market
Strike your own trade deals? Yes (although there would be some constraints on their content).
Freedom of movement? Yes.
EU budget contributions? Yes.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? No. Some checks may be necessary.

4. Common Market 2.0
Strike your own trade deals? No.
Freedom of movement? Yes.
EU budget contributions? Yes.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? Yes.

5. No-deal Brexit
Strike your own trade deals? Yes.
Freedom of movement? No.
EU budget contributions? No.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? No.

I guess it does depend on whether there is an agreement as to what was intended by Brexit, but to me it has always been predominantly about the ability to control one's own trade deals and have more control over immigration.

Out of the above, only 1 & 5 seem to meet the criteria, as far as I can see, the difference being that TM has recognised the Irish issue and we end up with having to make EU contributions. Something that hard-line Brexiteers probably aren't happy with, but I imagine she has had to concede to get any agreement with the EU at all.

I have to say that option 4 looks no different to what we have now with the exception of reduced or no powers in the decision making but, apart from that, what is Corbyn proposing? It isn't entirely clear to me.

However, if I was looking at this from an external standpoint I would have to say it would be with shock and awe. Whatever is the UK government doing? No wonder they are giving us time to try and get our act together.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:12 pm
by Tomiswalking
Meanwhile Charmichael leaves the Tories because of their immigration policies. https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/ ... ent-group/

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:55 pm
by paulK
paulK wrote:
Pitchfork wrote:Another worthwhile read

https://theconversation.com/brexit-five ... now-115187


Interesting article. It poses the question How did one of the world’s oldest democracies and largest economies end up in this deadlock?

My answer - the world's oldest democracy gave the decision to the population, something I always felt would end in tears, though the analysis in the article does give a further insightful analysis as to why the Brexit outcome shouldn't have come as too much of a shock.

Also, whether it would be wise to let the population vote again in the misguided (IMO) belief that the public are now better informed? I'm really not sure. In some ways, it would make a mockery of the whole process. However, no doubt the outcome of EU elections might give some sentiment as to how the population is feeling.

Despite the vilification of TM in the article, the position as outlined in the referenced article has me even more confused.

1. Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement
Strike your own trade deals? Yes.
Freedom of movement? No.
EU budget contributions? Yes.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? Yes

2. Customs union
Strike your own trade deals? No.
Freedom of movement? No.
EU budget contributions? Yes, but limited.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? Yes.

3. Single market
Strike your own trade deals? Yes (although there would be some constraints on their content).
Freedom of movement? Yes.
EU budget contributions? Yes.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? No. Some checks may be necessary.

4. Common Market 2.0
Strike your own trade deals? No.
Freedom of movement? Yes.
EU budget contributions? Yes.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? Yes.

5. No-deal Brexit
Strike your own trade deals? Yes.
Freedom of movement? No.
EU budget contributions? No.
Does it solve the Irish border issue? No.

I guess it does depend on whether there is an agreement as to what was intended by Brexit, but to me it has always been predominantly about the ability to control one's own trade deals and have more control over immigration.

Out of the above, only 1 & 5 seem to meet the criteria, as far as I can see, the difference being that TM has recognised the Irish issue and we end up with having to make EU contributions. Something that hard-line Brexiteers probably aren't happy with, but I imagine she has had to concede to get any agreement with the EU at all.

I have to say that option 4 looks no different to what we have now with the exception of reduced or no powers in the decision making but, apart from that, what is Corbyn proposing? It isn't entirely clear to me.

However, if I was looking at this from an external standpoint I would have to say it would be with shock and awe. Whatever is the UK government doing? No wonder they are giving us time to try and get our act together.


Decided to try to answer my own questions. It appears that Corbyn's view is "There will be some who will tell you that Brexit is a disaster for this country and some who will tell you that Brexit will create a land of milk and honey. The truth is that it’s in our hands: Brexit is what we make of it together." Absolutely. With the exception of the together bit whichI don't quite understand, I couldn't agree more.

However, Labours position also states that they believe we should be in a Customs Union and a Single Market. From that I can only deduce:

Strike your own trade deals? No and Yes, but we would be constrained on their contents
Freedom of movement? No and Yes.
EU budget contributions? Yes, but limited and Yes
Does it solve the Irish border issue? Yes and no, some checks may be necessary.

Well, that was helpful :roll: :roll: :roll:

Somehow I feel none-the wiser and even more confused as to what Labour thinks the differences are between their version of Brexit and what we have now :(

Just to clarify - where I said government above I meant parliament.

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:51 pm
by The Old TomCat
Brexit explained:
Easy Scottish Brexit interpretation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TapDH8huztM

Simple once you listen to speaker :D :lol:

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 4:19 pm
by paulK
Image

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 4:32 pm
by Pitchfork
+1

Re: Brexit

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 5:47 pm
by Fartvs Antiqvvs
The non progress fist our politicians are making of Brexit and the reverse of your coin p/K, leaves only this result:

Image to stay in the EU FOREVER! :lol: