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Re: Brexit

Postby twoguns » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:24 pm

The EU have already refused to renegotiate the deal so with time slipping away and Michael Gove appointed as 'no deal minister' we will be leaving without a deal, fact.

There will of course be some short term pain as a consequence, crack on.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:02 pm

dursleydog wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:Put No Deal on ballot paper and then you will have your democratic argument.

Why?
No need. All this was discussed/considered during the Referendum in 2016.


Yet again, not really true is it?

No deal was never discussed as an option pre-referendum. Every major brexiteer politician advocated some sort of deal.

“We’re very well placed, and mutual self-interest suggests we’d cut a very good deal and it’s certainly not in the European’s interests to erect trade barriers.” Dominic Raab, 2 weeks before the vote.

“Our relationship with the EU is already very well developed. It doesn’t seem to me to be very hard … to do a free trade deal very rapidly indeed.” Boris Johnson, speaking to the Treasury Sect Commitee 2016

“I put it to you, all those who say that there would be barriers to trade with Europe if we were to do a Brexit, do you seriously believe that they would put up tariffs against UK produce of any kind, when they know how much they want to sell us their cake, their champagne, their cheese from France? It is totally and utterly absurd.” Boris again, speaking at a Vote Leave event in March 2016.

“EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU. British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down,” he said. “The only change – and it will not come in any great rush – is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU’s extraordinary and opaque system of legislation.” Boris in the Telegraph 3 days after the vote.

“Outside the EU, we would still benefit from the free trade zone which stretches from Iceland to the Russian border,” Michael Gove

“The OECD states that: ‘trade with the EU and other countries would initially revert to a WTO MFN-basis’. This is a highly flawed assumption that not even the IN campaign seriously contemplates as a realistic possibility. Leading pro-EU campaigners have admitted the UK will strike a free trade agreement if we vote Leave.” Official press release from the Vote Leave campaign condemning press coverage of the possibility of a no deal in early 2016

“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.” Liam Fox

I know reality is a pretty inconvenient problem for some Leave supporters, so you’ll probably just ignore this and spout “Leave means Leave” or some other rubbish. But it’s pretty unequivocal that no deal wasn’t on the table when options for what Leave meant on that ballot paper were being discussed.
So if you voted for no deal, you’re either a psychic or weren’t paying the blindest bit of notice to what you were voting for.


Yes, but why let the truth get in the way of a good old-fashioned’, Alf Garnett-style, racist agenda? It’s what our grandfathers fought for apparently.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Silver Surfer » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:21 pm

Not only was no-deal ever mentioned, nether was the multi-billion pound divorce bill. All Boris said was that the NHS would be loads better off.
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Re: Brexit

Postby twoguns » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:28 pm

Good reposte TH.

My Grandfather was a decorated desert rat fighting for our liberty. He lived in Tottenham and sadly was robbed at knife point in his own home in latter life, he died shortly after. I worked in London for thirty years witnessing the multi cultural change over those years and embraced it. Sadly there is an element that live outside the law and commit these heinous crimes but to criticise these people put you in the racist nazi bracket just because I voted leave.

I strongly believe this Country will thrive after leaving the EU. Not long to prove me right.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:26 pm

TreeHugger wrote:
Yes, but why let the truth get in the way of a good old-fashioned’, Alf Garnett-style, racist agenda? It’s what our grandfathers fought for apparently.

I am sure everybody on forum is grateful for your continual reminders that everybody who voted Brexit is a racist, all 17,410,742 leave voters.
Obviously UK is a racist country or otherwise why would it vote OUT.
And why would the EU want to be contaminated by a racist island country like the UK. They have anti-racist laws on the EU mainland which the UK would corrupt if it stayed a member.
To stay safe the EU would be better off waving UK goodbye and force the country out with or without a NO DEAL.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:34 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
TreeHugger wrote:
Yes, but why let the truth get in the way of a good old-fashioned’, Alf Garnett-style, racist agenda? It’s what our grandfathers fought for apparently.

I am sure everybody on forum is grateful for your continual reminders that everybody who voted Brexit is a racist, all 17,410,742 leave voters.
Obviously UK is a racist country or otherwise why would it vote OUT.
And why would the EU want to be contaminated by a racist island country like the UK. They have anti-racist laws on the EU mainland which the UK would corrupt if it stayed a member.
To stay safe the EU would be better off waving UK goodbye and force the country out with or without a NO DEAL.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Well we have a racist Prime Minister and a Cabinet cosying up to the racist trump, trying to win votes off the racist Farage and getting support from the racist Bannon.

So yes, if in a General Election this is what Britain votes for then the obvious conclusion is that Britain is a racist country.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:56 pm

Eco-Exile wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:
TreeHugger wrote:
Well we have a racist Prime Minister and a Cabinet cosying up to the racist trump, trying to win votes off the racist Farage and getting support from the racist Bannon.

So yes, if in a General Election this is what Britain votes for then the obvious conclusion is that Britain is a racist country.


Oh dear, you have a serious problem at next General Election if the Tory government is as bad as you claim because Labour has a problem twenty times as bad with its Jewish/Israel problem.
You could always vote LibDem but by time of next election their policy of remain will be null and void - UK will have left the EU. And of course the Lib Dems have a history of sordid sex scandals.

I think you'll find that people vote for the party they dislike the least. That is why Boris with his ethnically diverse cabinet will romp to victory in next general election. He will have fulfilled the wishes of the majority of voters by leading the UK out of the EU.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:55 am

‘...Boris will be deemed the best PM of the 21st century... (The Old TomCat, 2019).

‘...people vote for the party they dislike the least...’. (The Old TomCat, 2019).

:?: :?:

If you vote for, support, or in any way condone a racist, then you are a racist. Enabling is as bad as doing. Racism should be called out at every opportunity, not hidden behind pseudo-legitimacy because it suits a greedy, isolationist agenda. You may not think you are racist by supporting Boris Johnson, but I’m here to point out that you are.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:04 am

twoguns wrote:My Grandfather was a decorated desert rat fighting for our liberty. He lived in Tottenham and sadly was robbed at knife point in his own home in latter life, he died shortly after. I worked in London for thirty years witnessing the multi cultural change over those years and embraced it. Sadly there is an element that live outside the law and commit these heinous crimes..


An ‘element’ of what TG? Are you’re saying that crime is committed exclusively by immigrants? Do the good old Anglo-Saxons not carry out knife robberies?

This is a classic example of a racist view proffered by a Brexit supporter who thinks he is not racist. Just because you don’t carry out cross burnings on the front lawn, it doesn’t mean you don’t have underlying prejudice. You’ve made my argument for me perfectly.

Clearly an awful thing for you and your family to go through, but it’s not the fault of immigration into the UK.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:08 am

TreeHugger wrote:If you vote for, support, or in any way condone a racist, then you are a racist. Enabling is as bad as doing. Racism should be called out at every opportunity, not hidden behind pseudo-legitimacy because it suits a greedy, isolationist agenda. You may not think you are racist by supporting Boris Johnson, but I’m here to point out that you are.

If that is what you think, so be it. I no longer care what you think.
We know that you are talking a load of old bullshine but then we all know that you have an unhealthy obsession that racialism is endemic within our society, but which I can assure you it is not.
Thanks goodness that we are a day closer to leaving the EU and this thread will by definition end.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Silver Surfer » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:42 am

The Old TomCat wrote:You could always vote LibDem but by time of next election their policy of remain will be null and void - UK will have left the EU. And of course the Lib Dems have a history of sordid sex scandals.


Are you referring to the John Profumo scandal? Wasn't he a Tory?
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:00 am

The Old TomCat wrote:
TreeHugger wrote:If you vote for, support, or in any way condone a racist, then you are a racist. Enabling is as bad as doing. Racism should be called out at every opportunity, not hidden behind pseudo-legitimacy because it suits a greedy, isolationist agenda. You may not think you are racist by supporting Boris Johnson, but I’m here to point out that you are.

If that is what you think, so be it. I no longer care what you think.
We know that you are talking a load of old bullshine but then we all know that you have an unhealthy obsession that racialism is endemic within our society, but which I can assure you it is not.
Thanks goodness that we are a day closer to leaving the EU and this thread will by definition end.


People won’t forget your racism just because the thread ends.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:20 am

I doubt this thread will end, as we will be noting all that happens as a result of Brexit; the loss of jobs, the drop in the pound, the stuttering economy, the empowerment of those with nasty narrow minded jingoistic views.

And, of course, if the thread is stopped, these thing will still be going on, as people like the friends of Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson make shed-loads of money out of the turmoil they have created. Some of those that voted for it won’t see it, but will be waving their little flags cheering as they will be free!
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Re: Brexit

Postby voodoobluesman » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:52 am

TreeHugger wrote:
twoguns wrote:My Grandfather was a decorated desert rat fighting for our liberty. He lived in Tottenham and sadly was robbed at knife point in his own home in latter life, he died shortly after. I worked in London for thirty years witnessing the multi cultural change over those years and embraced it. Sadly there is an element that live outside the law and commit these heinous crimes..


An ‘element’ of what TG? Are you’re saying that crime is committed exclusively by immigrants? Do the good old Anglo-Saxons not carry out knife robberies?

This is a classic example of a racist view proffered by a Brexit supporter who thinks he is not racist. Just because you don’t carry out cross burnings on the front lawn, it doesn’t mean you don’t have underlying prejudice. You’ve made my argument for me perfectly.

Clearly an awful thing for you and your family to go through, but it’s not the fault of immigration into the UK.


Twoguns post was, unfortunately racist, as he was defining a race when talking about problems within it. A criminal element is a problem of society, regardless of race, unless you want to use it to promote racist views.

Eco-Exile, having known OTC for a few years, you are definitely barking up the wrong tree,

If someone doesn't agree with Brexit, then it cheapens the argument by constantly playing the race card. There are many reasons why people voted leave.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:39 am

Silver Surfer wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:You could always vote LibDem but by time of next election their policy of remain will be null and void - UK will have left the EU. And of course the Lib Dems have a history of sordid sex scandals.


Are you referring to the John Profumo scandal? Wasn't he a Tory?


John Profumo was the Conservative Secretary of State of War in 1961 when it was revealed that he was sleeping with good-time girl Christine Keeler, who was also sleeping with a Russian spy.
The furore eventually brought down the Conservative government.

The long list of Liberals/Lib Dems who have also had their 15 minutes of fame in the sex scandal rags include:

Jeremy Thorpe
Cyril Smith
Baron Rennard MBE
Mark Oaten
Lord Lester
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:54 am

voodoobluesman wrote:
TreeHugger wrote:
twoguns wrote:My Grandfather was a decorated desert rat fighting for our liberty. He lived in Tottenham and sadly was robbed at knife point in his own home in latter life, he died shortly after. I worked in London for thirty years witnessing the multi cultural change over those years and embraced it. Sadly there is an element that live outside the law and commit these heinous crimes..


An ‘element’ of what TG? Are you’re saying that crime is committed exclusively by immigrants? Do the good old Anglo-Saxons not carry out knife robberies?

This is a classic example of a racist view proffered by a Brexit supporter who thinks he is not racist. Just because you don’t carry out cross burnings on the front lawn, it doesn’t mean you don’t have underlying prejudice. You’ve made my argument for me perfectly.

Clearly an awful thing for you and your family to go through, but it’s not the fault of immigration into the UK.


Twoguns post was, unfortunately racist, as he was defining a race when talking about problems within it. A criminal element is a problem of society, regardless of race, unless you want to use it to promote racist views.

Eco-Exile, having known OTC for a few years, you are definitely barking up the wrong tree,

If someone doesn't agree with Brexit, then it cheapens the argument by constantly playing the race card. There are many reasons why people voted leave.


I wasn’t talking about Brexit. I was talking about his support for a racist prime minister with links and friendships with racists like Trump, Bannon and Farage.

I am a Conservative supporter traditionally however I will never vote for the party whilst a racist leads the party, regardless of what happens with Brexit.

Brexit will sort itself out one way or another, but the need to call out racism will always be there and it saddens me that plenty of other Conservative voters are happy to support a racist.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:55 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
TreeHugger wrote:If you vote for, support, or in any way condone a racist, then you are a racist. Enabling is as bad as doing. Racism should be called out at every opportunity, not hidden behind pseudo-legitimacy because it suits a greedy, isolationist agenda. You may not think you are racist by supporting Boris Johnson, but I’m here to point out that you are.

If that is what you think, so be it. I no longer care what you think.
We know that you are talking a load of old bullshine but then we all know that you have an unhealthy obsession that racialism is endemic within our society, but which I can assure you it is not.
Thanks goodness that we are a day closer to leaving the EU and this thread will by definition end.


You may not care what I think OTC and that is fine. But I will continue until my last breath, to condemn and call out racist attitudes and those that defend other racists.

I can assure you that there are large parts of society where ‘racialism’ [sic] is endemic. Failure to acknowledge this ought to perhaps lead to some degree of introspection.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:36 pm

Eco-Exile wrote: ... a racist prime minister with links and friendships with racists like Trump ...


Steady on there E-E. You may find yourself a victim of rendition, following a visit by the men in black suits and dark sun-glasses. ;)
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Re: Brexit

Postby dursleydog » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:02 pm

OTC there condemning the Lib Dem’s for historic sex scandals while backing a PM who was sacked from a cabinet position in 2004 for lying about an affair and has “5 or 6 children” according to his Wikipedia page :lol:
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:36 pm

TreeHugger wrote: I will continue until my last breath, to condemn and call out racist attitudes and those that defend other racists.

I can assure you that there are large parts of society where ‘racialism’ [sic] is endemic. Failure to acknowledge this ought to perhaps lead to some degree of introspection.


I note that you have not called out Jeremy Corbyn who in the few years as leader of Labour has turned it into an antisemitic party.
Not sure if it was forgetfulness or whether you are a hypocritical Corbynist supporter. I suspect the latter.
Therefore I ask: will you be voting for that racist political party Labour at next general election?
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