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Re: Parliament

Postby Eco-Exile » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:27 am

From that I can see of the deal the main difference from past deals is the UK is no longer committing to protecting workers rights, business standards and environmental standards.
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Re: Parliament

Postby Silver Surfer » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:29 am

A big problem for me is that 100% of the focus has been on the Irish issue. The solution itself is very vague and seems to be based on the Stormont assembly, which hasn't been able to agree to even meet for 3 years, suddenly agreeing to meet and approve the deal.

None of the other issues, fishing, VAT, Gibraltar etc have been covered.

If this "deal" is accepted we will spend the next 20 years in ever more acrimonious arguments with the EU.
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Re: Parliament

Postby The Old TomCat » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:44 am

Eco-Exile wrote:From that I can see of the deal the main difference from past deals is the UK is no longer committing to protecting workers rights, business standards and environmental standards.

Post above must be read with knowledge that Eco-Exile is a Corbyn Labour Party loyalist and what he says is in their party handbook.

If you believe what you've just written you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
The UK has some of the highest standards for worker's rights, business standards and the environment and that will not alter after Brexit.
To claim otherwise is just scare stories by the Labour Party.
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Re: Parliament

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:49 am

Once we plough our own furrow those workers’ rights are up for grabs.

When you look at the motley crew leading the Leave campaign, you know that all those things and the NHS are up for grabs for people to make money out of. The ordinary British person is going to be poohed on from a great height and the motley crew will be laughing all the way to their banks.

If you don’t believe it will happen, just look at what Trump has done in the US.
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Re: Parliament

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:52 am

The Old TomCat wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:From that I can see of the deal the main difference from past deals is the UK is no longer committing to protecting workers rights, business standards and environmental standards.

Post above must be read with knowledge that Eco-Exile is a Corbyn Labour Party loyalist and what he says is in their party handbook.

If you believe what you've just written you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
The UK has some of the highest standards for worker's rights, business standards and the environment and that will not alter after Brexit.
To claim otherwise is just scare stories by the Labour Party.


What an unpleasant post.

I’ve quoted it for posterity.
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Re: Parliament

Postby cookiemonster » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:26 am

The Old TomCat wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:From that I can see of the deal the main difference from past deals is the UK is no longer committing to protecting workers rights, business standards and environmental standards.

Post above must be read with knowledge that Eco-Exile is a Corbyn Labour Party loyalist and what he says is in their party handbook.

If you believe what you've just written you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
The UK has some of the highest standards for worker's rights, business standards and the environment and that will not alter after Brexit.
To claim otherwise is just scare stories by the Labour Party.


Bit naughty OTC. E-E may be a Labour loyaliist, maybe not, but his post is just a statement of the facts. Those commitments were in TM's deal and are missing from BJ's aren't they?
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Re: Parliament

Postby cookiemonster » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:30 am

p.s I think the funniest thing about BJ's deal is the barely concealed outrage from the DUP that BJ has rowed back on a commitment he made to them in a past party conference. Did they really think they could trust him?
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Re: Parliament

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:49 am

I hope the MPs reject the deal.

Boris has shown many times he is not to be trusted. Liar and charlatan out for himself.
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Re: Parliament

Postby The Old TomCat » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:56 am

Too occasional fan wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:From that I can see of the deal the main difference from past deals is the UK is no longer committing to protecting workers rights, business standards and environmental standards.

Post above must be read with knowledge that Eco-Exile is a Corbyn Labour Party loyalist and what he says is in their party handbook.

If you believe what you've just written you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
The UK has some of the highest standards for worker's rights, business standards and the environment and that will not alter after Brexit.
To claim otherwise is just scare stories by the Labour Party.


What an unpleasant post.

I’ve quoted it for posterity.


Much appreciated.
Many thanks.
May be consider by Corbynists as unpleasant but it still be true.
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Re: Parliament

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:01 am

The Old TomCat wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:From that I can see of the deal the main difference from past deals is the UK is no longer committing to protecting workers rights, business standards and environmental standards.

Post above must be read with knowledge that Eco-Exile is a Corbyn Labour Party loyalist and what he says is in their party handbook.

If you believe what you've just written you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
The UK has some of the highest standards for worker's rights, business standards and the environment and that will not alter after Brexit.
To claim otherwise is just scare stories by the Labour Party.


What an unpleasant post.

I’ve quoted it for posterity.


Much appreciated.
Many thanks.
May be consider by Corbynists as unpleasant but it still be true.


Despite it being pointed out on here that Eco-Exile is a she you persist with your patriarchal bias.

Dinosaur behaviour.
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Re: Parliament

Postby paulK » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Silver Surfer wrote:A big problem for me is that 100% of the focus has been on the Irish issue. The solution itself is very vague and seems to be based on the Stormont assembly, which hasn't been able to agree to even meet for 3 years, suddenly agreeing to meet and approve the deal.

None of the other issues, fishing, VAT, Gibraltar etc have been covered.

If this "deal" is accepted we will spend the next 20 years in ever more acrimonious arguments with the EU.


https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-boris-johnson-dup-jacob-rees-mogg-eu-a9160431.html
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Re: Parliament

Postby cookiemonster » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:35 pm

paulK wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:A big problem for me is that 100% of the focus has been on the Irish issue. The solution itself is very vague and seems to be based on the Stormont assembly, which hasn't been able to agree to even meet for 3 years, suddenly agreeing to meet and approve the deal.

None of the other issues, fishing, VAT, Gibraltar etc have been covered.

If this "deal" is accepted we will spend the next 20 years in ever more acrimonious arguments with the EU.


https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-boris-johnson-dup-jacob-rees-mogg-eu-a9160431.html


Great column, at which I would laugh out loud were it not for me crying at what we have done to ourselves.

Reassuring that MPs will get a few hours tomorrow to debate the most important choice this nation will make in a generaion. That is about 10 per cent of the time SDC has already spent debating our new stadium.
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Re: Parliament

Postby paulK » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:49 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
paulK wrote:
Silver Surfer wrote:A big problem for me is that 100% of the focus has been on the Irish issue. The solution itself is very vague and seems to be based on the Stormont assembly, which hasn't been able to agree to even meet for 3 years, suddenly agreeing to meet and approve the deal.

None of the other issues, fishing, VAT, Gibraltar etc have been covered.

If this "deal" is accepted we will spend the next 20 years in ever more acrimonious arguments with the EU.


https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-boris-johnson-dup-jacob-rees-mogg-eu-a9160431.html


Great column, at which I would laugh out loud were it not for me crying at what we have done to ourselves.

Reassuring that MPs will get a few hours tomorrow to debate the most important choice this nation will make in a generaion. That is about 10 per cent of the time SDC has already spent debating our new stadium.


Have to admit, it doesn't make me laugh out loud either.
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Re: Parliament

Postby Eco-Exile » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:23 pm

Looks now like the deal is just a temporary one to get re-elected to then have a majority to leave with no deal next year. Whips of the Conservative are telling MPs that the UK can pull out of the deal during transition and leave with no deal by 2020.

Additionally none of the agreement to keep standards have been kept in the new deal so again a mandate to cut standards.
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Re: Parliament

Postby paulK » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:36 pm

Eco-Exile wrote:Looks now like the deal is just a temporary one to get re-elected to then have a majority to leave with no deal next year. Whips of the Conservative are telling MPs that the UK can pull out of the deal during transition and leave with no deal by 2020.

Additionally none of the agreement to keep standards have been kept in the new deal so again a mandate to cut standards.


Highlighted text. Source?
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Re: Parliament

Postby Eco-Exile » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:34 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:From that I can see of the deal the main difference from past deals is the UK is no longer committing to protecting workers rights, business standards and environmental standards.

Post above must be read with knowledge that Eco-Exile is a Corbyn Labour Party loyalist and what he says is in their party handbook.

If you believe what you've just written you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
The UK has some of the highest standards for worker's rights, business standards and the environment and that will not alter after Brexit.
To claim otherwise is just scare stories by the Labour Party.


I despise Corbyn and his racist, misogynistic Stalinist Labour Party.

I was simply reporting on facts that several of the commitments to employment, tax and environmental standards in the original WA have been removed from the most recent one. That is perfectly clear if you read both.
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Re: Parliament

Postby Eco-Exile » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:42 pm

paulK wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:Looks now like the deal is just a temporary one to get re-elected to then have a majority to leave with no deal next year. Whips of the Conservative are telling MPs that the UK can pull out of the deal during transition and leave with no deal by 2020.

Additionally none of the agreement to keep standards have been kept in the new deal so again a mandate to cut standards.


Highlighted text. Source?


ERG member and hard Brexiteer John Baron, stating what he was reassured by Raab and Gove.

Reported in all the proper papers. Here is one which is not on a paywall (but not the paper I saw it in):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nt-says-mp

“A MP calling for a hard Brexit has said he could vote for Boris Johnson’s deal with the EU because ministers have assured him it leaves open the possibility that the UK could crash out of Europe on World Trade Organization terms.

John Baron, a member of the European Research Group (ERG) who refused to back Theresa May’s proposals, claimed the cabinet ministers Michael Gove and Dominic Raab had said a no-deal exit was possible if trade talks failed.

Theresa May’s backstop could have had us locked into that arrangement indefinitely. Boris Johnson has torn up that backstop, which means that if the trade talks are not successful after we hopefully agree the deal tomorrow … then we could leave on no-deal terms,” he said.

“Provided we can get that clear assurance, and I have been given it so far by people like Michael Gove and Dominic Raab, and I’m hoping to get it from the prime minister tomorrow, that we will be leaving after the trade talks, if those trade talks fail up to December 2020, on no-deal terms … then we’ll be supporting the deal tomorrow.”
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Re: Parliament

Postby Eco-Exile » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:57 pm

Philip Hammond: I will not vote for a heavily camouflaged no‑deal Brexit

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5596 ... 5cc7bfde9a
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Re: Parliament

Postby paulK » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:02 pm

Eco-Exile wrote:
paulK wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:Looks now like the deal is just a temporary one to get re-elected to then have a majority to leave with no deal next year. Whips of the Conservative are telling MPs that the UK can pull out of the deal during transition and leave with no deal by 2020.

Additionally none of the agreement to keep standards have been kept in the new deal so again a mandate to cut standards.


Highlighted text. Source?


ERG member and hard Brexiteer John Baron, stating what he was reassured by Raab and Gove.

Reported in all the proper papers. Here is one which is not on a paywall (but not the paper I saw it in):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nt-says-mp

“A MP calling for a hard Brexit has said he could vote for Boris Johnson’s deal with the EU because ministers have assured him it leaves open the possibility that the UK could crash out of Europe on World Trade Organization terms.

John Baron, a member of the European Research Group (ERG) who refused to back Theresa May’s proposals, claimed the cabinet ministers Michael Gove and Dominic Raab had said a no-deal exit was possible if trade talks failed.

Theresa May’s backstop could have had us locked into that arrangement indefinitely. Boris Johnson has torn up that backstop, which means that if the trade talks are not successful after we hopefully agree the deal tomorrow … then we could leave on no-deal terms,” he said.

“Provided we can get that clear assurance, and I have been given it so far by people like Michael Gove and Dominic Raab, and I’m hoping to get it from the prime minister tomorrow, that we will be leaving after the trade talks, if those trade talks fail up to December 2020, on no-deal terms … then we’ll be supporting the deal tomorrow.”


They are looking to crash out before the end of 2020, they haven't been promised it. I cannot believe that Boris won't be going for a trade deal and would push it to the wire like he has with the 31 October deadline. No deal is not in anybody's interest.
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Re: Parliament

Postby Tomiswalking » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:05 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:From that I can see of the deal the main difference from past deals is the UK is no longer committing to protecting workers rights, business standards and environmental standards.

Post above must be read with knowledge that Eco-Exile is a Corbyn Labour Party loyalist and what he says is in their party handbook.

If you believe what you've just written you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
The UK has some of the highest standards for worker's rights, business standards and the environment and that will not alter after Brexit.
To claim otherwise is just scare stories by the Labour Party.

EE I apologise that you get spoken to like this on our forum.
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