UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Jovial Forester » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:45 am

Deletion seems a bit nuts, surely it's just a couple of databases which take up next to no space in the cosmic scheme of things. Even if the current board software has to go shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to make them readable on a different archive set-up.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Old TomCat » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:22 am

Kentstripe wrote: I remember the old (brewersnet) forum, and it's a shame that wasn't archived. However that doesn't change the fact that this forum contains a lot of great content that documents all of the clubs ups and downs over the last 12 or 13 years. Wouldn't it be a shame to lose all that?

Many posters have contributed a lot of content, including NFR who has started 3 of the most popular threads during lockdown, and for all that to be lost for good would be a shame.


I made a recent use of Forum to check out the form of one of our former players who had moved club and their fans wanted to know all about him.
I re-read the comments made at time of his departure to give them a rounded picture of his time at TNL.

So therefore I'm in the section that want this forum archived but accessible for FGR historians.
I hate the thought that the fan's thoughts during the period of our history, when club was promoted to Football League, will be destroyed.
To be blunt it is madness to delete/remove it.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Greeners » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:25 am

Hi
Perhaps there are too many of us carnivores posting on here, so they want to eliminate us. :D

Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Kentstripe » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:47 am

The Old TomCat wrote:
I made a recent use of Forum to check out the form of one of our former players who had moved club and their fans wanted to know all about him.
I re-read the comments made at time of his departure to give them a rounded picture of his time at TNL.

So therefore I'm in the section that want this forum archived but accessible for FGR historians.
I hate the thought that the fan's thoughts during the period of our history, when club was promoted to Football League, will be destroyed.
To be blunt it is madness to delete/remove it.


It's this sort of thing that you can only really get from reading back fans opinions. Most people won't remember off the top of their head and press reports, wikipedia etc don't give you more then just facts.

Recently when the Stockport home game from 2011-12 was shown on the history books feature on the website, it was interesting to go back and read through the match thread from that game. Official match reports, archive footage etc are all great but nothing gives you a better or more unique insight into past matches or events then reading fans opinions from the time.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Old TomCat » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:33 am

Thanks Simba for agreeing that the FGR website needs some ‘attention’.

I readily admit I’m not computer literate but am staggered that Ecotricity deem it necessary to delete a working forum and replace it with something new rather than just upgrade what we already have.
I bet that solution would be less expensive.

I’m also intrigued why Ecotricity want to change the forum when it is clear that numbers of posters has fallen in staggering numbers – the same as with most other forums.
Nowadays the overwhelming majority of fans use Twitter or Facebook.
Changing the forum will not generate more subscribers but probably lose many, many of them.
In other words, ‘a waste of money’.

I also challenge your remarks that should Ecotricity mothball this forum it could become a security threat. I very much doubt it and certainly suspect it would be no more than at present.

You claim that you’ve opened this thread to ensure fans know what is happening. But nowhere have you asked the fans what they want.
The FGR website upgrade debacle should have alerted the Ecotricity programmers that the fans who actually attend matches know more about what is needed rather than some guys working in a warm office miles away from TNL.

I think you let the cat out of the bag when you mentioned the cost of running a closed forum. That I’m sure is the real reason for this wanton destruction of the fans records and reinforces my statement that the present forum should be left alone but merely upgraded.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Fartvs Antiqvvs » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:47 am

And for the first time in a number of seasons, Please get the correct teams in the 'opposition forums' column! ;)
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Foggy » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:11 am

The main reason for updating the forum, and why I support this wholeheartedly, are highlighted right at the beginning of the statement from Simba.

When software is produced, such as for a forum like this one, there are constant updates (patches) to fix bugs. Changes will also be made to improve the appearance and functionality and also the security of information it contains relating to the users. As time passes the updates are less frequent up to a point where no more will be issued, largely because it is just not financially viable, software developers are spending their time creating new products and providing support to users of them.

Security is incredibly important to me. I will not use an application or website if I do not believe it is trustworthy or they take a cavalier attitude to protecting the information they hold on me, or in the worst cases are caught selling it to any willing buyer. The fact that the software supporting the forum is dated, probably hasn't been updated significantly in years, means that there are security risks surrounding the information it holds on us. At a very basic level it holds our email addresses, possibly sufficient details about where we live and other personal details about us, that is definitely a risk to our security...fine if you don't care about that, definitely not if you do, but this sort of data is gold-dust to people like scammers or those involved in identity theft.

Yes, it will be sad to say goodbye to this forum, along with all the carefully crafted posts from its members...but this is progress, it will increase the level of security provided to the members (us) and should be supported and welcomed.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Tom FGR » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:15 am

I agree it's time for a updated forum. We shouldn't lose any posters as I assume it will redirect you to the new forum.

I think it'll be possible to have a archive section on the new forum, shouldn't be too tricky?

If not, forums are pretty much for the news right now imo.

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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Kentstripe » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:41 am

Don't think many people have got a problem with the club updating/launching a new forum. It's just deleting all of this one that seems like a shame.

I just think some would appreciate if this forum was archived or at least saved in some form, even if it's initially on a hard drive. Then everyone's happy.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Eco-Exile » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:27 pm

chrism wrote:Will have to find a link to the Hitler sketch and save that one!


Well deleting the threads will mean evidence of racism and misogyny from some posters is removed, which is for the best. Hopefully the new forum does not see these things posted again.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Kentstripe » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:35 pm

Eco-Exile wrote:
chrism wrote:Will have to find a link to the Hitler sketch and save that one!


Well deleting the threads will mean evidence of racism and misogyny from some posters is removed, which is for the best. Hopefully the new forum does not see these things posted again.


Wasn't racist in the slightest.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5191&hilit=Hitler
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Too occasional fan » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:01 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:Thanks Simba for agreeing that the FGR website needs some ‘attention’.

I readily admit I’m not computer literate but am staggered that Ecotricity deem it necessary to delete a working forum and replace it with something new rather than just upgrade what we already have.
I bet that solution would be less expensive.

I’m also intrigued why Ecotricity want to change the forum when it is clear that numbers of posters has fallen in staggering numbers – the same as with most other forums.
Nowadays the overwhelming majority of fans use Twitter or Facebook.
Changing the forum will not generate more subscribers but probably lose many, many of them.
In other words, ‘a waste of money’.

I also challenge your remarks that should Ecotricity mothball this forum it could become a security threat. I very much doubt it and certainly suspect it would be no more than at present.

You claim that you’ve opened this thread to ensure fans know what is happening. But nowhere have you asked the fans what they want.
The FGR website upgrade debacle should have alerted the Ecotricity programmers that the fans who actually attend matches know more about what is needed rather than some guys working in a warm office miles away from TNL.

I think you let the cat out of the bag when you mentioned the cost of running a closed forum. That I’m sure is the real reason for this wanton destruction of the fans records and reinforces my statement that the present forum should be left alone but merely upgraded.


I think most of these points have been answered. An old forum would become a liability, the database has what you put your address as (if you filled it out properly) and is at risk of being hacked. The older it is, the more at risk. People have talked about the financial cost of hosting a forum on a server - what about the legal cost of losing posters data to hackers?

As for Twitter and Facebook - they aren't there to provide information and a space to chat about FGR. They are there to make money off you (or more correctly, off your data and your habits). The do not care one iota about FGR. They are also poor for discussions and difficult to follow - their algorithms feed you what they think you want to read. So you miss stuff. (We've had this discussion before about Tom Cat's cookies and what Google serves up in search results). Also Facebook and Twitter serve different audiences. A forum serves one audience - people interested in FGR. If you don't have a Facebook or Twitter account, you cannot take part, many people do not have Facebook or Twitter accounts.

I'd imagine that there are people that don't post here because they cannot swear, or post inflammatory/illegal comment about players, managers, owners. Or because they've been banned for behaviour. Does not having them make a difference to the experience?
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Too occasional fan » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:02 pm

Kentstripe wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:
chrism wrote:Will have to find a link to the Hitler sketch and save that one!


Well deleting the threads will mean evidence of racism and misogyny from some posters is removed, which is for the best. Hopefully the new forum does not see these things posted again.


Wasn't racist in the slightest.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5191&hilit=Hitler


I think EE is talking about a different set of posts.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Kentstripe » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:09 pm

Is it not possible to archive the forum posts without saving membership data?
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby FGRWill » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:05 pm

For those suggesting this has been rushed in to - you’re wrong! If the current forum was your boiler - it would have been condemned several years ago.

I’m afraid the way it was built, there’s no way to separate out posts from personal data - it’s over a decade later old and things have moved on.

We know people won’t all be happy with the loss of old posts - but that’s the best way forward.

The new platform gets automatically updated for security and has lots of really good new functions - including better social media integration and video.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Old TomCat » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:19 pm

FGRWill wrote:For those suggesting this has been rushed in to - you’re wrong! If the current forum was your boiler - it would have been condemned several years ago.

I’m afraid the way it was built, there’s no way to separate out posts from personal data - it’s over a decade later old and things have moved on.

We know people won’t all be happy with the loss of old posts - but that’s the best way forward.

The new platform gets automatically updated for security and has lots of really good new functions - including better social media integration and video.


Will, that does not address issue that despite all its shortcomings, the majority of posters still want sight of this forum.
I'm sure it is possible to close it down for new posts but allow everybody to research bye-gone posts.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Eco-Exile » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:36 pm

This feels like the time to ask why we have we have a Club-run forum in any case. The fact must be we are one of few, or even the only, clubs to do so. My husband thinks it is very odd!
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby FGRWill » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:40 pm

OTC - i’m afraid you are actually, completely wrong. Leave it online much longer and it’ll become a real security risk for your personal data - hence the decision being taken to shut it down totally. We have a responsibility to the users to keep their data safe - now that entire line of forum software has ceased, it can’t be done.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Too occasional fan » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:49 pm

Eco-Exile wrote:This feels like the time to ask why we have we have a Club-run forum in any case. The fact must be we are one of few, or even the only, clubs to do so. My husband thinks it is very odd!


It’s a good question. Glad to see you posting your husband’s views. Just be pleased you are allowed to post on here. ;)
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:17 am

FGRWill wrote:OTC - i’m afraid you are actually, completely wrong. Leave it online much longer and it’ll become a real security risk for your personal data - hence the decision being taken to shut it down totally. We have a responsibility to the users to keep their data safe - now that entire line of forum software has ceased, it can’t be done.


I have been told by an insider who has tested the new proposed forum that it is the bees knees, a vast improvement on what we have at moment.
Therefore something good to look forward to.

Will, please explain why a locked down forum would pose a security threat. I honestly don't know.
What is the technical reason for your fear?
Surely removal of all the posters contact details prior to it being locked, would remove any form of threat while allowing us to re-read previous posts.
A few weeks ago one of our better known and popular posters, STANMAN, passed away and it would be great re-read some of his wise words.
Plus there are more than many excellent match reports that will be lost such as Dave's humorous ones.

If your concern is merely time constraint for removing every poster's personal details, I'm sure there is plenty of helping hands that can assist you and Simba.
Do please reconsider junking our history and think outside the box of methods in preserving it.
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