UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:47 am

Hopefully an advantage of new forum will be that it becomes easier to create an account.
I know of a few people that have been unable to do so [something to do with their email address].

When news broke that this forum was folding, I perused the list of members = 95 pages X 24 per page or just under 2,400.
A huge number have never posted but some are no longer in contact with club.
There are quite a few Cheltenham supporters amongst the list although most joined long before they considered FGR to be future opposition.
Well worth a shufti by long timers to remind themselves of a time before Twitter when this forum was red hot.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Eco-Exile » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:11 am

Too occasional fan wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:This feels like the time to ask why we have we have a Club-run forum in any case. The fact must be we are one of few, or even the only, clubs to do so. My husband thinks it is very odd!


It’s a good question. Glad to see you posting your husband’s views. Just be pleased you are allowed to post on here. ;)


I see what you mean with that way to interpret. I should have explained my meaning that I do not use any other sports forum so have no comparison in mind. My husband uses another football forum and ones for a few different sports, which are all independent from the Club so ours stands out like a thumb so sore.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Silver Surfer » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:23 am

I must agree that it would be a great shame to lose the words of FGR fans over the years. It is a vital part of our history.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:58 am

Eco-Exile wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:This feels like the time to ask why we have we have a Club-run forum in any case. The fact must be we are one of few, or even the only, clubs to do so. My husband thinks it is very odd!


It’s a good question. Glad to see you posting your husband’s views. Just be pleased you are allowed to post on here. ;)


I see what you mean with that way to interpret. I should have explained my meaning that I do not use any other sports forum so have no comparison in mind. My husband uses another football forum and ones for a few different sports, which are all independent from the Club so ours stands out like a thumb so sore.

Here I must agree with Mr EE.
We have been very fortunate that the club pays for this forum but it has been mentioned on more than one occasion that they adopt a hands off approach.
Removing the forum off the web is not 'hands off'.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Foggy » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:03 am

There is an easy check you can make if you want to know whether a website is secure or not. Look at the URL in your browser (it is effectively the address of the page that you are looking at, which helps your browser locate it).

If the URL begins with "https://" then it is effectively secure. When properly configured, an HTTPS connection guarantees three things: Confidentiality. The visitors connection is encrypted, obscuring URLs, cookies, and other sensitive metadata. While it was once reserved primarily for passwords and other sensitive data, such as sites that required you to enter sensitive personal information (eg: bank account details) the entire web is gradually leaving HTTP behind and switching to HTTPS. The “S” in HTTPS stands for “Secure”. HTTPS encrypts nearly all information sent between a client and a web service.

I have just done a quick check and sites like the weather channel I use, the BBC website and YouTube all use HTTPS, which gives me confidence that any information I share is protected. In the browser where I am typing this I get a warning "Not secure", which tells me all that I need to know about the pages I am browsing and the need to migrate away from this service as soon as possible, certainly to be guarded about how much information I share.

Yes it will be sad to leave our messages behind but when it comes to the urgency to move to a new, more secure, service I am prepared to trust the judgement of those with even a modicum of knowledge about cyber security than someone who doesn't.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:10 am

Foggy wrote:There is an easy check you can make if you want to know whether a website is secure or not. Look at the URL in your browser (it is effectively the address of the page that you are looking at, which helps your browser locate it).

If the URL begins with "https://" then it is effectively secure. When properly configured, an HTTPS connection guarantees three things: Confidentiality. The visitors connection is encrypted, obscuring URLs, cookies, and other sensitive metadata. While it was once reserved primarily for passwords and other sensitive data, such as sites that required you to enter sensitive personal information (eg: bank account details) the entire web is gradually leaving HTTP behind and switching to HTTPS. The “S” in HTTPS stands for “Secure”.

I have just done a quick check and sites like the weather channel I use, the BBC website and YouTube all use HTTPS, which gives me confidence that any information I share is protected. In the browser where I am typing this I get a warning "Not secure", which tells me all that I need to know about the pages I am browsing and the need to migrate away from this service as soon as possible, certainly to be guarded about how much information I share.

Yes it will be sad to leave our messages behind but when it comes to the urgency to move to a new, more secure, service I am prepared to trust the judgement of those with even a modicum of knowledge about cyber security than someone who doesn't.


Foggy, everybody is happy that a better more secure service will be coming along.
But what most of us don't want to lose is our forum history - that is the real issue.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Simba » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:33 am

As a bare minimum, we can save a copy of the forum. it would be an 'offline' copy that none of us would be able to access but at least everything would still exist. I question the value of this approach but there's no harm in doing it, as long as user data is not copied across.

In the meantime I'll keep investigating if and how data from this forum can be exported. That is the only way we'll get significant content onto the new forum.

It is unreasonable to expect this to be done manually, even with a team of volunteers. The First Team section alone has 183,340 posts. :shock:
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby NewForestRover » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:38 am

I have nothing against a new, secure forum. What I'm objecting to is losing everything on this one. Why couldn't this one be updated? Why can't some of the threads be moved across to the new one? Especially some of the popular ones from the General chat section.

Simba, you say work has been going on to set up the new system over the past few months, yet you are only giving us FIVE days notice!! Is that really enough time to back everything up?

I'm back at work now after having three months off. Apart from today, I'm working until next weekend when according to your post, this forum will be gone. So how am I supposed to copy and paste 100 PM's, go through 2000+ of my own posts, let alone posts from other people that I'd like to keep by this evening?
We should have been told about this during lockdown when a lot of us had plenty of time to spare.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Kentstripe » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:23 am

Simba wrote:As a bare minimum, we can save a copy of the forum. it would be an 'offline' copy that none of us would be able to access but at least everything would still exist. I question the value of this approach but there's no harm in doing it, as long as user data is not copied across.

In the meantime I'll keep investigating if and how data from this forum can be exported. That is the only way we'll get significant content onto the new forum.

It is unreasonable to expect this to be done manually, even with a team of volunteers. The First Team section alone has 183,340 posts. :shock:


I definitely think copying it and storing it offline would be a good start, if that's all that's possible for now. The worth to the club in terms of an insight into an important part of it's history shouldn't be underestimated.

There's some real gold in amongst the thousands of threads from the last 12 or so years, the sort of material you won't find anywhere else. Some of the threads are like time capsules into old matches etc, and imo nothing beats people's varied opinions from the time if you ever want to look back at certain periods of time and put things in context.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Lady Magpie » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:46 am

Eco-Exile wrote:This feels like the time to ask why we have we have a Club-run forum in any case. The fact must be we are one of few, or even the only, clubs to do so. My husband thinks it is very odd!


Start one yourself Eco-Exile, your husband can help, it's been tried a few times and hasn't worked. The many other none club forums are prone to being full of vile and bad language, would you like younger supporters subject to that, no should be the answer.

I better add that this forum wasn't a club owned forum.

Go on, give it a go if you think it's right.

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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Eco-Exile » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:48 am

Lady Magpie wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:This feels like the time to ask why we have we have a Club-run forum in any case. The fact must be we are one of few, or even the only, clubs to do so. My husband thinks it is very odd!


Start one yourself Eco-Exile, your husband can help, it's been tried a few times and hasn't worked. The many other none club forums are prone to being full of vile and bad language, would you like younger supporters subject to that, no should be the answer.

Go on, give it a go if you think it's right.

LM


Oh you will see I didn’t say it was right, just that the question could be asked.

Language etc is only due to moderation. It doesn’t matter who hosts the forum, it is moderating which ceases vile and bad language.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Old TomCat » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:01 am

Simba wrote:As a bare minimum, we can save a copy of the forum. it would be an 'offline' copy that none of us would be able to access but at least everything would still exist. I question the value of this approach but there's no harm in doing it, as long as user data is not copied across.

In the meantime I'll keep investigating if and how data from this forum can be exported. That is the only way we'll get significant content onto the new forum.

It is unreasonable to expect this to be done manually, even with a team of volunteers. The First Team section alone has 183,340 posts. :shock:

Thanks Simba,
Everyone agrees it is unreasonable to manually transfer 183,340 posts to new forum but there are other methods of retaining it all.
Would it be possible to keep old forum on the web, but with all contacts deleted and closed for further conversations.
It would take a team less than an hour to remove sensitive personal information.
The programmers could add a front page caveat that the site is insecure, thereby ensuring the best from both parties.
We could still check out past poems, match reports etc etc, while Ecotricity will have an umbrella should an individual's personal laptop gets infected.
If in that case I think a similar expression to 'Buyer beware' would be appropriate.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Foggy » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:11 am

Seriously, some people just don't get cyber security...leaving this forum in any form on the web for people to access would be like going away on holiday for two weeks and leaving your doors and windows open, in the misguided hope that nobody will enter your home and rob you while you are away.

I am starting to think that the sooner it is closed and taken offline the better, all the better for protecting all who do get the implications of it remaining accessible, but also those who are just too stupid to understand.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Simba » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:14 am

NewForestRover wrote:I have nothing against a new, secure forum. What I'm objecting to is losing everything on this one. Why couldn't this one be updated? Why can't some of the threads be moved across to the new one? Especially some of the popular ones from the General chat section.

Simba, you say work has been going on to set up the new system over the past few months, yet you are only giving us FIVE days notice!! Is that really enough time to back everything up?

I'm back at work now after having three months off. Apart from today, I'm working until next weekend when according to your post, this forum will be gone. So how am I supposed to copy and paste 100 PM's, go through 2000+ of my own posts, let alone posts from other people that I'd like to keep by this evening?
We should have been told about this during lockdown when a lot of us had plenty of time to spare.


Hi NewForestRover,

I'll try and answer your questions in order. I'm sorry that you have little to no spare time for this.

updating the forum
This forum can't be updated because it isn't supported anymore, this happens from time to time across different technology.

Moving threads across
I am trying to figure out how to do this, it isn't just copy and paste because of the data fields that need to be included (the author, date & time, comment, ID etc). Importing into the new forum 'looks' simple, exporting from this one is less so.

Working on it the new forum for months
I get it, this is a complete surprise. And whilst work on the new forum has been going on for a while now, it wasn't ready until the second week in July. It's at that point that I got involved and was asked to look at making sure we are set up correctly. And it's at that point we came to the conclusion that wholesale migration is not feasible.

Please bear in mind that the club has also been shutdown the entire time (including me). There have been two people working at the club, Henry the CEO and our Safety Officer. So communication has been minimal.

Saving content in the space of five days
I'd recommend you focus on Private messages, I don't know if any of those could even be backed up, so it's safe to assume those are most at risk.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Greeners » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:47 am

Hi
Foggy wrote:Seriously, some people just don't get cyber security...leaving this forum in any form on the web for people to access would be like going away on holiday for two weeks and leaving your doors and windows open, in the misguided hope that nobody will enter your home and rob you while you are away.

You mean like those idiots who post about just having a "Beer"/ "Cofffee"/"Burger" etc etc, in Magaloof etc on FB, Instawhatever and Tw*tter.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Foggy » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:01 am

Greeners wrote:Hi

You mean like those idiots who post about just having a "Beer"/ "Cofffee"/"Burger" etc etc, in Magaloof etc on FB, Instawhatever and Tw*tter.


Probably, but as I avoid social media, wherever possible, I'm possibly not the best person to comment and will have to take your word for it!
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby The Old TomCat » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:42 pm

Foggy wrote:Seriously, some people just don't get cyber security...leaving this forum in any form on the web for people to access would be like going away on holiday for two weeks and leaving your doors and windows open, in the misguided hope that nobody will enter your home and rob you while you are away.

I am starting to think that the sooner it is closed and taken offline the better, all the better for protecting all who do get the implications of it remaining accessible, but also those who are just too stupid to understand.

Foggy, all your fears have been addressed in my previous reply.
You are in a very tiny minority wishing forum to be taken offline and many of those wishing it to remain are far from stupid.
You are happily using this forum today but next month you think it will become a target from cyber criminals - come off it.
I am prepared to accept the risk of delving into a closed forum in the years to come as I'm sure are many others who have expressed similar opinions.
I also suspect that some time in the future a clever computer whizz-kid will devise a method to keep sites such as this maximum secure. So it would be a crying shame if the forum was destroyed in the meantime.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Eco-Exile » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:06 pm

Simba wrote:
NewForestRover wrote:I have nothing against a new, secure forum. What I'm objecting to is losing everything on this one. Why couldn't this one be updated? Why can't some of the threads be moved across to the new one? Especially some of the popular ones from the General chat section.

Simba, you say work has been going on to set up the new system over the past few months, yet you are only giving us FIVE days notice!! Is that really enough time to back everything up?

I'm back at work now after having three months off. Apart from today, I'm working until next weekend when according to your post, this forum will be gone. So how am I supposed to copy and paste 100 PM's, go through 2000+ of my own posts, let alone posts from other people that I'd like to keep by this evening?
We should have been told about this during lockdown when a lot of us had plenty of time to spare.


Hi NewForestRover,

I'll try and answer your questions in order. I'm sorry that you have little to no spare time for this.

updating the forum
This forum can't be updated because it isn't supported anymore, this happens from time to time across different technology.

Moving threads across
I am trying to figure out how to do this, it isn't just copy and paste because of the data fields that need to be included (the author, date & time, comment, ID etc). Importing into the new forum 'looks' simple, exporting from this one is less so.

Working on it the new forum for months
I get it, this is a complete surprise. And whilst work on the new forum has been going on for a while now, it wasn't ready until the second week in July. It's at that point that I got involved and was asked to look at making sure we are set up correctly. And it's at that point we came to the conclusion that wholesale migration is not feasible.

Please bear in mind that the club has also been shutdown the entire time (including me). There have been two people working at the club, Henry the CEO and our Safety Officer. So communication has been minimal.

Saving content in the space of five days
I'd recommend you focus on Private messages, I don't know if any of those could even be backed up, so it's safe to assume those are most at risk.


My bold underline demonstrates where the mistake was made.

It was only after a few months of designing the new forum that you were asked to look at how to deal with content on the existing forum. Then the problem was revealed.

Had fans been informed of and asked about the plans two months ago then feedback would have revealed that keeping legacy content from the existing forum was important.

Keeping legacy content would then have been a specific outcome in the brief given to the developers. And the commissioned developers would have to have designed their method from the start to deliver the outcome.

Outcomes focussed project design is key to success. This was not done here, where it seems little thought was given to the outcomes fans want until too late.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby twoguns » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:06 pm

I'm caught in two minds over the switch to a new forum. Supported the club for over 15 years and whilst that pails in comparison to a lot of posters I have many special memories documented here good and bad.

Watching us play Stevenage on the last match at The Lawn ensuring Conference survival ahead of our move to The New Lawn on a glorious sunny afternoon probably the best for me. Southport six away when the supporters coach broke down, the stewards felt sorry for us in the torrential rain, gamesmanship from Stoksie saw us beat them 1-3 and we were lucky to escape with our lives. Sorry Chris for leaving you behind, lol.

Was at Grays and Tamworth, say no more.

I've also been the victim of Internet fraud. Barclaycard £850 lost through some on line game platform. I don't play on line games. My Halifax current account rinsed for £3k plus two loans taken out in my name for 10k & 4k. I did have it eventually sorted by respective fraud teams.

The move to a more secure forum is welcome from me but terribly disappointed if the club's forum history for the last decade is lost.

Finally despite forum names many of us are known to each other and following migration I hope that is not lost.
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Re: UPDATE: Launching a new FGR Forum

Postby Bill Shankly » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:49 pm

Please can you move over any topics that have had responses in last 7 days eg our games like word association ex fgr players etc etc

Thank you
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