Brexit

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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:33 pm

Silver Surfer wrote:Someone seems to feel it is necessary to talk up a perceived antisemitic issue in Labour to try and divert attention from the blatant lies of the Brexiteers. Much easier to take the Trump route which is to ignore their own lies and invent issues about their opponents.

I think this is a key point.

Add the point about who controls a large section of the media and what they would like to achieve.

Unfortunately there is a huge chunk of the population that laps it up unquestioningly. Where does that get us? Brexit, that’s where.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:06 am

Who exactly are above posters alluding to when talking about groups controlling the media? And to what purpose?
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Re: Brexit

Postby voodoobluesman » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:38 pm

There are a few, from Cambridge Analytica (or whoever they are now) who are just data miners who just want to work for whoever pays them the most money, but the shadiest have to be the Internet Research Agency in St Petersburg, who have row upon row of employed internet trolls.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:44 pm

voodoobluesman wrote:There are a few, from Cambridge Analytica (or whoever they are now) who are just data miners who just want to work for whoever pays them the most money, but the shadiest have to be the Internet Research Agency in St Petersburg, who have row upon row of employed internet trolls.


Do those trolls write newspapers though or just twitter? I thought by control the media you meant newspaper and tv news editors and journalists.
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Re: Brexit

Postby voodoobluesman » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:15 pm

No that's the Murdoch empire, Barclay Brothers and Paul Dacre, who do that.
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Re: Brexit

Postby twoguns » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:56 pm

There seems to be a developing coup led by Jeremy Corbyn to force a vote of no confidence in the government to avoid a no deal brexit. Seems to have legs as long as JC does not become PM.

Current suggestions for interim PM are Ken Clarke or Harriet Harmon. Interesting and unprecedented few weeks ahead.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:59 am

SoSlow wrote:OTC please can you stop the hyperbole about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.


That is the sensible option and one I would normally agree with but unfortunately we have amongst our group a self appointed anti-racist vigilante who is distorting conversation in manner of Joseph Goebbels by repeating a lie so many times that people start to believe him.
I am offended that he claims that this country is racist because it voted OUT. It is not.
I am offended that he claims Boris is racist when clearly he is not.
I resent being told I am a racist because I am prepared to support Boris in his campaign to lead the UK out of the EU.
Boris, in his capacity as a newspaper columnist, did write some provocative articles to open up debate on racial matters. I do not necessarily agree with what he has written or the old fashioned language he used but it was not unlawful. And I defend to my enth his right, as well as for others, to be able to freely express themselves in our democratic country.
It is fanatics such as our own zealot who is stifling constructive debate on what is a sensitive subject.
That is why I mentioned that Labour is now seen as anti-Semetic [It is being formally investigated by the Equality and Human Right Committee]. I chose to fight fire with fire. Hopefully he and his like minded cohorts will now cease to use the racist card in this Brexit debate and get on with the real discussion of its impending implementation for either good or bad.
Last edited by The Old TomCat on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:45 am

twoguns wrote:There seems to be a developing coup led by Jeremy Corbyn to force a vote of no confidence in the government to avoid a no deal brexit. Seems to have legs as long as JC does not become PM.

Current suggestions for interim PM are Ken Clarke or Harriet Harmon. Interesting and unprecedented few weeks ahead.

Early feedback suggest that he will fail. Even the Lib Dems who are arch Remainers have said they will not support his motion.
And that begs the question if Corbyn does formally ask Parliament for a vote of no confidence in the government and fails, must he then fall on his own sword and resign as leader of the opposition.
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Re: Brexit

Postby TreeHugger » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:52 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
SoSlow wrote:OTC please can you stop the hyperbole about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.


That is the sensible option and one I would normally agree with but unfortunately we have amongst our group a self appointed anti-racist vigilante who is distorting conversation in manner of Joseph Goebbels by repeating a lie so many times that people start to believe him.
I am offended that he claims that this country is racist because it voted OUT. It is not.
I am offended that he claims Boris is racist when clearly he is not.
I resent being told I am a racist because I am prepared to support Boris in his campaign to lead the UK out of the EU.
Boris, in his capacity as a newspaper columnist, did write some provocative articles to open up debate on racial matters. I do not necessarily agree with what he has written or the old fashioned language he used but it was not unlawful. And I defend to my enth his right, as well as for others, to be able to freely express themselves in our democratic country.
It is fanatics such as our own zealot who is stifling constructive debate on what is a sensitive subject.
That is why I mentioned that Labour is now seen as anti-Semetic [It is being formally investigated by the Equality and Human Right Committee]. I chose to fight fire with fire. Hopefully he and his like minded cohorts will now cease to use the racist card in this Brexit debate and get on with the real discussion of its impending implementation for either good or bad.


Oooh... I do hope it’s me you’re referring to and that EE hasn’t come in and stolen my thunder.

Aren’t all anti-racists self-appointed or did I miss some kind of election? I thought it was something that reasonable people just did automatically.

And let’s not forget you’ve previously been banned from this forum for racist comment have you not?

PS. Boris is a racist. JC is an anti-Semite. I dislike both of them equally. Hope that’s okay and sorry if it dampens your ‘fire with fire’ approach. Maybe you could dig up something disparaging about the Greens to really get my goat? Or Greta Thunberg perhaps? Brexiteers don’t really like her do they? I’m not sure whether it’s because she’s foreign, young, autistic, or just too wordy... Probably all of those things.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Tomiswalking » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:20 pm

OTC you keep excusing racism and discrimination. We arnt talking about excusing a family member who may have grown up a long time ago when this language was more common. You are excusing the priminster for purposfully printing these terms. Get a grip, this is not acceptable and I think you know it.

We have left the undemocratic powers of Europe and now have put our sovreity in the hand of borris johnson. What a disaster.

I also dont fall for the well labour did this or that rubbish, two wrongs dont make a right.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:21 pm

Tomiswalking wrote:OTC you keep excusing racism and discrimination. We arnt talking about excusing a family member who may have grown up a long time ago when this language was more common. You are excusing the priminster for purposfully printing these terms. Get a grip, this is not acceptable and I think you know it.

We have left the undemocratic powers of Europe and now have put our sovreity in the hand of borris johnson. What a disaster.

I also dont fall for the well labour did this or that rubbish, two wrongs dont make a right.



Come on, remember OTC grew up a long time ago.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Foggy » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:18 pm

I heard a really good quote recently, that seems to sum up much of the sentiment on this thread, and it is "the standard you walk past is the standard you accept"

This has been attributed to a former Australian Army General, David Morrison, but he admitted that it had been used by a previous Chief of Defence.

Although the quote was used in reference to bullying in the workplace I think it can be equally applied to racism, sexism and homophobia. It is not only up to those who suffer from those forms of abuse to speak out but also those who witness it to do the same. Anyone who tolerates that type of behaviour in others, who does nothing when witnessing it, or even behaves in the same way, is part of the problem. We should not tolerate this in any way whatsoever, wherever or whenever it may rear its ugly head. I am reassured by the comments from those who wish to counter such dreadful behaviour, or take a stand against the perpetrators, you are part of the solution.
Last edited by Foggy on Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:39 pm

The Sunday Times makes for sober reading today.
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Re: Brexit

Postby paulK » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:54 am

Too occasional fan wrote:The Sunday Times makes for sober reading today.



glad you enjoyed it - whatever it was :roll:
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:43 am

paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:The Sunday Times makes for sober reading today.



glad you enjoyed it - whatever it was :roll:


I think it has something to do with a Remainer who was in Theresa May's government leaking an out of date 'worse case scenario' paper which findings has been roundly repudiated.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Timb » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:25 am

Everything except language
knows the meaning of the universe
trees, planets, rivers, Time
know nothing else. They express it
moment by moment in the universe.

Even this fool of a body
lives it in part, and would
have full dignity within it
but for the ignorant freedom
of my talking mind.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:31 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:The Sunday Times makes for sober reading today.



glad you enjoyed it - whatever it was :roll:


I think it has something to do with a Remainer who was in Theresa May's government leaking an out of date 'worse case scenario' paper which findings has been roundly repudiated.


That is the spin put on it by the Brexit expert "I think the people in this country have had enough of experts" Michael Gove.

Number 10 is turning into Trumpton with all their predictable spinning.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:09 pm

Too occasional fan wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:
paulK wrote:
Too occasional fan wrote:The Sunday Times makes for sober reading today.



glad you enjoyed it - whatever it was :roll:


I think it has something to do with a Remainer who was in Theresa May's government leaking an out of date 'worse case scenario' paper which findings has been roundly repudiated.


That is the spin put on it by the Brexit expert "I think the people in this country have had enough of experts" Michael Gove.

Number 10 is turning into Trumpton with all their predictable spinning.

Michael Grove stating the blaringly obvious is NOT spin.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Silver Surfer » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:28 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:Michael Grove stating the blaringly obvious is NOT spin.


The obvious being that the lies of the brexiteers are about to be revealed in full. Better off? Take back control?

You are having a laugh.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:31 pm

Silver Surfer wrote:
The Old TomCat wrote:Michael Grove stating the blaringly obvious is NOT spin.


The obvious being that the lies of the brexiteers are about to be revealed in full. Better off? Take back control?

You are having a laugh.


Indeed. Except I don't think OTC is having a laugh, I think he actually believes this stuff!
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