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Re: Brexit

Postby dursleydog » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:26 pm

Oh boy this threads gonna get deleted :lol:
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Re: Brexit

Postby Kentstripe » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:31 pm

Eco-Exile wrote:
Kentstripe wrote:Yesterday in this thread Eco Exile directly called OTC a racist. Why has this post not been deleted? It is a personal insult which is against forum rules. If the user continues to hurl anonymous insults in such a keyboard warrior fashion then maybe a ban would be justified?


I will happily retract my statement and apologise to Old Tom Cat. All he has to do is say he condemns Boris Johnson’s racism. As long as Old Tom Cat defends or ignored Boris Johnson’s racism then there is nothing wrong with my post for me apologise for.

Is this is the depth we have reached? Where we have a fan of our great club wanting to ban another fan of our club merely for expressing concern for racism she and her friends and family are fearful of or have been victims from?


I don't want anyone banned, I want people to be able have a debate about Brexit on here without resorting to personal insults. The whole problem with this debate in general wherever you look is too many people seem incapable of that. This thread was one place where the debate was pretty sensible and civil until one or two started trying to abuse OTC for his views on the subject. He has every right to his views, as do you. No one has a right to attempt to insult or bully people for having a different opinion though.
Last edited by Kentstripe on Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:34 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
dursleydog wrote:
Or maybe, just maybe, what you said was inappropriate.
But no it must be the establishment/pc culture gone mad/millennials/remoaners/moderators that are all wrong. :roll:


That may well be although I took time to make sure what I wrote was accurate and truthful.
I did not get personal but asked if Eco Exile supported Afro Americans who state that the Ku Klux Klan hoods stop the world seeing them but it only offers the KKK a small window for them to see out.
I asked EE if he agreed with the Afro Americans [as I do] then he must agree with Boris who said similar about full veil niqabs.
EE cannot have it both ways, either he agrees with the Afro Americans [and Boris] or condones the KKK.
It seems the Referee is an ardent Remainer who cannot contemplate others of a different opinion winning a debate.
I suspect referee removed my post because I completely destroyed Boris's detractors with cold logic.

But if Referee wants to remove my post then the Referee should have also removed every post that refers to me or Boris as racists.


No wonder your post was removed.

Why are you even talking about the KKK? I have no idea what your suggestion is in this post.

And please do not refer to me as he!
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:38 pm

Kentstripe wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:
Kentstripe wrote:Yesterday in this thread Eco Exile directly called OTC a racist. Why has this post not been deleted? It is a personal insult which is against forum rules. If the user continues to hurl anonymous insults in such a keyboard warrior fashion then maybe a ban would be justified?


I will happily retract my statement and apologise to Old Tom Cat. All he has to do is say he condemns Boris Johnson’s racism. As long as Old Tom Cat defends or ignored Boris Johnson’s racism then there is nothing wrong with my post for me apologise for.

Is this is the depth we have reached? Where we have a fan of our great club wanting to ban another fan of our club merely for expressing concern for racism she and her friends and family are fearful of or have been victims from?


I don't want anyone banned, I want to be able for people to have a debate about Brexit without resorting to personal insults. The whole problem with this debate in general wherever you look is too many people seem incapable of that. This thread was one place where the debate was pretty sensible and civil until one or two started trying to abuse OTC for his views on the subject. He has every right to his views, as do you. No one has a right to attempt to insult or bully people for having a different opinion though.


I do not care about Old Tom Cat’s viewpoint on Brexit. That does not matter to me.

Do you believe that that criticising someone for defending a politician who says black people have “water melon smiles” and calls black children “piccaninnies” is bullying?
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:43 pm

Eco-Exile wrote:
Is the statement here suggesting you do also think Boris Johnson is racist?


Boris is not a racist and in the post that was removed by Referee, I gave concrete proof that he was NOT racist.

You will have to get Referee to repost my post for a fair judgement.

Sorry for referring to you as HE, I was not to know otherwise, mate.

Re: Brexit
Post by Eco-Exile » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:38 pm
I do not care about Old Tom Cat’s viewpoint on Brexit. That does not matter to me.

Do you believe that that criticising someone for defending a politician who says black people have “water melon smiles” and calls black children “piccaninnies” is bullying?


I had already address that issue on post Referee deleted.
That is not bullying. What you are doing towards me is bullying.
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:48 pm

Eco-Exile wrote:
No wonder your post was removed.

Why are you even talking about the KKK? I have no idea what your suggestion is in this post.

And please do not refer to me as he!


Mate,
In condemning Boris you are also condemning all Afro Americans and thus condoning the KKK.
Notice how easy it is to turn your own words against yourself.
Do give up, you are getting to be a bore.
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Re: Brexit

Postby michael » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:50 pm

Moving away from more personal dialogue :

Yes i am a Remainer-and after 40 years of voting conservative, have no intention of voting for that party because it is pro brexit and perhaps even more concerning-very very right wing.

My intention would have been Lib -Dem.and mad as it sounded-there was even a slim chance of them getting to 33% of the popular vote.

I prob will still vote lib dem -but having said they will now revoke article 50 without a referendum-have they shot themselves in the foot ,not to minimally give the people a choice based on what brexit actually means .

I am struggling a bit as it is arguably a bit anti democratic .

give me some help here as to why i should still vote lib dem .

I think my pro european (we are one world ) sentiments outweigh my concerns re democracy (based on true facts this time ),but it is a bit of a concern for me.

does the lib dem proclamation split this 3 ways-conserv -the leave party
lbr -the sit in the middle party
lib dems -the remain party.

will the lib dem decision split the voters so much that the nasty party will get back in by default ?
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Re: Brexit

Postby Kentstripe » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:50 pm

It looks like Priti Patel has today hinted that the government has given up on no deal by Oct 31st, and is fully focused on securing a deal. which is good imo. They should not try and bypass the law imo, so maybe an arrangement that suits everyone is still possible.

Personally I wonder what chance is there of any renegotiated last minute deal getting through Parliament though? With a minority government it seems pretty unlikely I reckon, even if some sort of reasonable compromise is reached on the Irish backstop.

I think it's clear pretty there has to be an election asap at this point. It's virtually impossible for a minority government to achieve anything, and all this uncertainty is good for no one.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:24 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:
No wonder your post was removed.

Why are you even talking about the KKK? I have no idea what your suggestion is in this post.

And please do not refer to me as he!


Mate,
In condemning Boris you are also condemning all Afro Americans and thus condoning the KKK.
Notice how easy it is to turn your own words against yourself.
Do give up, you are getting to be a bore.


Of course I do not condone the KKK. They take racism and discrimination of all kinds to an extreme far beyond anything in U.K. politics. Completely abhorrent organisation that no one apart from racists can defend.

How you think I was condoning them I have no idée.

We will have to agree to leave it there for the sake of the forum. It is obvious to all you won’t criticise Boris Johnson’s racism and will argue to defend it as the opposite. What that says about you I will leave to others to conclude their own minds.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:38 pm

Kentstripe wrote:It looks like Priti Patel has today hinted that the government has given up on no deal by Oct 31st, and is fully focused on securing a deal. which is good imo. They should not try and bypass the law imo, so maybe an arrangement that suits everyone is still possible.

Personally I wonder what chance is there of any renegotiated last minute deal getting through Parliament though? With a minority government it seems pretty unlikely I reckon, even if some sort of reasonable compromise is reached on the Irish backstop.

I think it's clear pretty there has to be an election asap at this point. It's virtually impossible for a minority government to achieve anything, and all this uncertainty is good for no one.


A verdict I agree with. I think the Lib Dem have been wise. Tory and Labour will both campaign for their own deals and own version of Brexit. Brexit Party will campaign on No Deal. So No Brexit is the clear market for Lib Dem to secure.

My rough prediction of seats will be:

Tory: 290
Labour: 210
SNP: 50
Lib Dem: 50
Independents: 22
Brexit: 8
Sinn Fein: 7
DUP: 5
Alliance: 4
SDLP: 2
Green: 2
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Re: Brexit

Postby The Old TomCat » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:14 pm

Eco-Exile wrote:We will have to agree to leave it there for the sake of the forum. It is obvious to all you won’t criticise Boris Johnson’s racism and will argue to defend it as the opposite. What that says about you I will leave to others to conclude their own minds.


Thank you.
I have no problems in supporting Boris and all fair minded people who study what he has actually said in context will agree with me.
And here I stand with the majority as I do with Brexit.
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Re: Brexit

Postby dursleydog » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:19 pm

michael wrote:Moving away from more personal dialogue :

Yes i am a Remainer-and after 40 years of voting conservative, have no intention of voting for that party because it is pro brexit and perhaps even more concerning-very very right wing.

My intention would have been Lib -Dem.and mad as it sounded-there was even a slim chance of them getting to 33% of the popular vote.

I prob will still vote lib dem -but having said they will now revoke article 50 without a referendum-have they shot themselves in the foot ,not to minimally give the people a choice based on what brexit actually means .

I am struggling a bit as it is arguably a bit anti democratic .

give me some help here as to why i should still vote lib dem .

I think my pro european (we are one world ) sentiments outweigh my concerns re democracy (based on true facts this time ),but it is a bit of a concern for me.

does the lib dem proclamation split this 3 ways-conserv -the leave party
lbr -the sit in the middle party
lib dems -the remain party.

will the lib dem decision split the voters so much that the nasty party will get back in by default ?


It’s tricky, I’m coming to the Lib Dem’s from the labour side of the equation but I feel the same way as you. Cancelling Brexit is what I want, but I feel it needs to be the people’s decision to do so, not the politicians as it feels undemocratic. However, I can definitely see why a simple “let’s just can the whole thing it’s a disaster” approach appeals.
I don’t like Corbyn, but being a tradition Labour voter I do like some of the ideas he’s brought to the table and I do actually think they’ve eventually stumbled across the fairest solution to the crisis, a 2nd vote between remaining and a nailed down leave option. But like I said, I don’t like Corbyn, or his approach to the rise of anti semitism in the party.

In the end I’ve decided to bin the party loyalties and simply vote for the party best place to keep the hard brexiteers out of power, in my seat (Truro and Falmouth) that looks to be Labour and the anti-austerity message. If I lived in Somerset, I’d vote Lib Dem. If I still lived in Stroud, I’d be voting Labour purely because they stand the best chance.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Too occasional fan » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:28 pm

Cameron writes that Boris chose Leave to further his own career.

How anyone can believe in that snake Johnson is beyond me.
The gimlet of the forum.
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Re: Brexit

Postby dursleydog » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:28 pm

Kentstripe wrote:It looks like Priti Patel has today hinted that the government has given up on no deal by Oct 31st, and is fully focused on securing a deal. which is good imo. They should not try and bypass the law imo, so maybe an arrangement that suits everyone is still possible.

Personally I wonder what chance is there of any renegotiated last minute deal getting through Parliament though? With a minority government it seems pretty unlikely I reckon, even if some sort of reasonable compromise is reached on the Irish backstop.

I think it's clear pretty there has to be an election asap at this point. It's virtually impossible for a minority government to achieve anything, and all this uncertainty is good for no one.


The big problem here of course is no one on the remain side trusts a word this government says, and given their track record, I think it’s unwise to take someone like Priti Patel at her word. Those on the EU side have said this government has made a grand total of 0 proposals with regards to replacing the backstop, the size of the negotiation team have been slashed to a 1/4 of what it was under May, all while spending £100m on an advertising campaign for a no deal crash out in the 31st. The actions of this government aren’t stacking up to their words.

An election is needed, but we need an election to produce a majority government (or workable coalition) not as a means to force through a no deal brexit by the back door. As it stands I’d fully expect a November election, but I don’t think it will necessarily bring any extra clarity. The country is as divided as parliament is, and I worry a GE will just bring more of the same.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Tomiswalking » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:10 pm

The Old TomCat wrote:
Eco-Exile wrote:We will have to agree to leave it there for the sake of the forum. It is obvious to all you won’t criticise Boris Johnson’s racism and will argue to defend it as the opposite. What that says about you I will leave to others to conclude their own minds.


Thank you.
I have no problems in supporting Boris and all fair minded people who study what he has actually said in context will agree with me.
And here I stand with the majority as I do with Brexit.


You are such an arrogant person. Maybe you should become a politician your self, I hear the tory party may need a few more right wingers, as they have lost a few fair minded people. We shall see OTC, but I know a lot has changed since the last vote ;)
Last edited by Tomiswalking on Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Tomiswalking » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:12 pm

dursleydog wrote:
Kentstripe wrote:It looks like Priti Patel has today hinted that the government has given up on no deal by Oct 31st, and is fully focused on securing a deal. which is good imo. They should not try and bypass the law imo, so maybe an arrangement that suits everyone is still possible.

Personally I wonder what chance is there of any renegotiated last minute deal getting through Parliament though? With a minority government it seems pretty unlikely I reckon, even if some sort of reasonable compromise is reached on the Irish backstop.

I think it's clear pretty there has to be an election asap at this point. It's virtually impossible for a minority government to achieve anything, and all this uncertainty is good for no one.


The big problem here of course is no one on the remain side trusts a word this government says, and given their track record, I think it’s unwise to take someone like Priti Patel at her word. Those on the EU side have said this government has made a grand total of 0 proposals with regards to replacing the backstop, the size of the negotiation team have been slashed to a 1/4 of what it was under May, all while spending £100m on an advertising campaign for a no deal crash out in the 31st. The actions of this government aren’t stacking up to their words.

An election is needed, but we need an election to produce a majority government (or workable coalition) not as a means to force through a no deal brexit by the back door. As it stands I’d fully expect a November election, but I don’t think it will necessarily bring any extra clarity. The country is as divided as parliament is, and I worry a GE will just bring more of the same.


I agree that Brexit is important. But so are environmental issues, housing, health and employment. I hope that the main parties dont just make lip service and false promises about the things that unite us.

After this, there is no going back, eu and uk, our disatisfaction with politics is boiling over. I feel even a war would only be a tempory distraction.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Tomiswalking » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:27 pm

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/s ... rd-3128734

Sad article. Although it's good that more people are reporting discrimination, a rise of 43 % of racism reports is not a good thing. Although OTC would probably defend some of the reports as a simple case of 'old fashioned language' and not racist.
Last edited by Tomiswalking on Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Eco-Exile » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:37 pm

Tomiswalking wrote:https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/discrimination-reports-football-rise-third-3128734

Sad article. Although it's good that more people are reporting discrimination, a rise of 43 % of racism reports is not a good thing. Although OTC would defend their language as old fashioned and not racist.


These statistics reflect experiences I am all too familiar with. I know plenty of persons who have had to face such things. Though of course some on this forum would say it is made up and we should stop complaining.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Referee » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:44 pm

The subject has been locked due to the personnel abuse and accusations being made, it has gone beyond a joke. If the subject is started again it will be removed.

It may also be removed after some discussion.
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